.25/.50 Am I misapplying SSHE here?

[OziBattler]

boz is right as usual so just read his post except I dont hate just folding preflop if we have any reads that its not going to be a multiway limped pot. fold preflop keeps you out of tough spots but playing it gives you experience tough spots whilst the price of poker is cheap (assuming you are adequately rolled for this limit..)

[arch_angel]

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Posting blind: yes. SSHE wasn't written to address the current online .25/.50 game.

Having read your post: Preflop is fine. On the flop you should absolutely have raised hoping to knock out overcards, etc, which is the play that SSHE would advocate. That would make the hand play differently, the turn would probably be checked to you and you would bet; as played, the turn could probably be a raise the first time around, definitely a raise the second time around; again, these plays would be advocated by SSHE.

I'll just leave the river alone, as it would have been far different had you played the flop and turn differently.

So, no, you're not misapplying SSHE; you're not applying it at all.

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The flop raise I understand because I thought about doing just that. I used to play way to passive in mediocre spots, and to be honest probably would have considered folding rather than considered raising the way I used to play, I just was really passive with small or medium pairs on coordinated flops.

What I don't get is the raise as played. I agree I almost have to bet the turn if I raise the flop, but why bet the turn if I just call the flop? Am I bluffing a flopped str8 and hoping to fold people out? Do you think my 8s are good? I think that the only way I win is if I improve, so why am I trying to fold people out on the turn given this action?

[arch_angel]

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:g:
Pre flop is pretty meh, if the table is remotly agressive you will often see a raise behind you with so much dead money in already.

raise flop.

You have TPWK and outs if behind. You want trash that could draw out to fold and you have a relatively strong hand.

You can probably call turn but realize that spiking a T probably doesnt get you very far. I dont think the A changes much on the river but I cant really see a call.

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Okay for some reason I can't remember how to edit and I'm being stupid so I don't want to figure it out.

Anyway I was about 20-30 hands in and the whole table is very passive with the exception of myself and two other players (both of whom have already folded). Given this read does everyone who says fold still think it's a fold pf? I was prob 90%+ to be 4 handed or more with no raise. I actually thought that with 5 players left to act it might get 6 handed all limped, that's how passive the table was.

[arch_angel]

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1st you counted 4 9's as outs + the 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
On the flop I would raise this, because you have top pair, plus the back door flush draw and inside straight draw. You would also like to make people with over cards face 2 bets instead of 1 to protect top pair.
The way you played it the turn call and call was good but the hand changes if you raise the flop.
As far as your outs go on the turn I would say you have 9-10 outs discounting A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] where 2 pair makes a full house. I wouldn't quote me on that you'll have to ask a veteran to give you a better answer on that

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wow, I can't even believe I did that. that was pretty stoopid of me. guess that'll teach me to post/review hhs when i wake up in the morning. Although it should be the 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]s discounted instead of the A, but I get your point.

[arch_angel]

boz any suggestions on what I should be reading instead? back when I started SSHE was what everyone recommended, but I can see how the landscape has changed in ways that make it somewhat outdated (though still very good), but is there anything out there as good as SSHE but for the current types of online micro limit games?

[Fantam]

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boz any suggestions on what I should be reading instead? back when I started SSHE was what everyone recommended, but I can see how the landscape has changed in ways that make it somewhat outdated (though still very good), but is there anything out there as good as SSHE but for the current types of online micro limit games?

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SSHE is always going to be a good read. I would also read Winning Low Limit Hold Em 3rd Ed (Lee Jones). Its an easy enjoyable read and takes you through a lot of basic hand situations.

Winning Internet Texas Hold Em (Mathew Hilger) is also very good. It is very thorough with different hand situations and a little more detailed than WLLHE.

For the hand, your reasons for limping pf were fine. (I would have folded, but that is neither here nor there).

I agree that the flop was a raise. The flop better may have been betting a draw, and you did not want to let overcards draw cheaply if you had the best hand. You also had a lot of outs if behind.

As played, I would not have raised the turn. You were still drawing and I think that you would have to discount your outs for pairing your T as that could have made one of your 2 opponents a straight.

You would need at least 15 good outs for a turn bet/raise to be + EV against 2 opponents that both called, and I dont think that you had that many.

[bozlax]

You've asked a couple of things:

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boz any suggestions on what I should be reading instead?

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Let's take the easier one, first. It's not really a question of reading something instead, you just have to adjust the SSHE recs. For instance, throw the "loose" preflop chart away. There are no online games > .05/.10 that are consistently loose enough to play that way preflop. Give a little more credit to strong moves like turn c/r's; players just aren't bluffing you online, or retardedly c/r'ing with 2nd/3rd pair. Hang around here, you'll start to see the needed adjustments.

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What I don't get is the raise as played.

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This is a two part answer. First time around, you're raising as a semi-bluff; you don't mind taking it down, now, and you've got plenty of outs if you do get called. As I said above, a turn raise is pretty widely seen to scream "monster" in a way that a flop raise doesn't, and you're facing the field with two bets cold. That one is really optional, especially in a big pot at a aggro-ish table, where nobody's folding anyway.

The second time around, you're raising for value. Basically, you've got somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 outs, giving you around a 33% chance of hitting with one card to come and 46 unseen, and you "know" you've got 3 opponents, so you're only putting in 25% of the money. If you make this play every time, you can see that you can't help but make money.

Edit: To Aussie: I agree about preflop. My response was mostly a response to the first two replies which focused primarily on pf.

[marchron]

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If you fold this one-gapper PF it will be much easier to play

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Brilliant. Zen-like. Damn near Yoda-esque in its wisdom if not its sentence structure.

[Bulletproof Monk]

fold preflop.

not remotely close.

[ichthyologist]

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If you fold this one-gapper PF it will be much easier to play

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Brilliant. Zen-like. Damn near Yoda-esque in its wisdom if not its sentence structure.

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Fold this suited one-gapper you should; much easier to play it will be.

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]