OK, so

[Paul B.]

It sounds like you really wanna go through with the PhD program, but I say EFF IT. Sounds like there's some shenanigans going on if they're making you pay for the first two years. Not really... I just wanted to say shenanigans.

Regarding the whole depression thing, how does your friend figure you'll be happy at the end of year 1? It's more likely that you'll be miserable, considering you don't want a high stress job. A PhD program at U-Chicago spells high stress.

I said eff it and make that documentary. You'll get a lot of satisfaction out of that as long as you take a more optimistic approach to it, rather than saying it won't make you rich or whatever. Don't settle. I worked with Morgan Spurlock (creator of Super Size Me) and a bunch of my pessimistic co-workers doubted him. He's a millionaire now because he didn't settle for second best. The potential is there with poker. Just say EFF IT, and do what you love.

[entertainme]

[ QUOTE ]
EDIT: The other thing is, it's important to have a good idea about what your employment opportunities are at the other end once you have the Ph.D, and whether or not this is a material improvement. I'm not well informed on the subject of economics, but I'd imagine that about the only thing having the Ph.D will allow you to do that you couldn't before is be a professor. And while that's fun and all, it's HARD to become a professor at the kind of institution that you'd like to be a professor at. I read a great quote that was something along the lines of "brilliant undergrads who decide to try and become professors on the basis of their Nobel laureate faculty are making a decision no more sound than the teenage girl who sees Britney Spears and decides to become a musician."

It's hard to hear this stuff - I wish I'd paid more attention to it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or he could end up with opportunities like this guy.

[CIncyHR]

Dean,

I only met you for a few days last summer, but you definitely leave the impression of being a very bright guy. The opportunity to study at OofChicago is a geat one, available to very few people. Sometimes I wish I worked harder in my life so that I could have a similar chance. I think you should do it, and I'm quite certain you won't regret it.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
EDIT: The other thing is, it's important to have a good idea about what your employment opportunities are at the other end once you have the Ph.D, and whether or not this is a material improvement. I'm not well informed on the subject of economics, but I'd imagine that about the only thing having the Ph.D will allow you to do that you couldn't before is be a professor. And while that's fun and all, it's HARD to become a professor at the kind of institution that you'd like to be a professor at. I read a great quote that was something along the lines of "brilliant undergrads who decide to try and become professors on the basis of their Nobel laureate faculty are making a decision no more sound than the teenage girl who sees Britney Spears and decides to become a musician."

It's hard to hear this stuff - I wish I'd paid more attention to it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or he could end up with opportunities like this guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, he could be like that guy. How likely is it? How much competition will there be? And are there comparably good opportunities without the Ph.D? Pointing to single examples of guys with Ph.D's and saying "you could do that" isn't really the most firm foundation to make the decision on. Five years in the workforce, with promotions and raises, seems like it will probably be as good or better for many jobs where the Ph.D won't be necessary.

[Rearden]

How likely are you to get Steven Levitt to wear an "lol donkaments", "I put on my robe and wizard hat", or other 2p2 related shirt? (this is a serious question)

A friend of mine recently accepted a similar post at Harvard in Bio. I think this is an incredible chance. My suggestion is to at the very least try it.... you can always leave but you may never be able to get back in. Good luck no matter what you decide.

[entertainme]

[ QUOTE ]

Yes, he could be like that guy. How likely is it? How much competition will there be? And are there comparably good opportunities without the Ph.D? Pointing to single examples of guys with Ph.D's and saying "you could do that" isn't really the most firm foundation to make the decision on. Five years in the workforce, with promotions and raises, seems like it will probably be as good or better for many jobs where the Ph.D won't be necessary.

[/ QUOTE ]

My point was that the PHD does present opportunities other than being a professor. For some reason this guy Sohn sticks in my head. I don't know if I saw him speak somewhere of just remember reading his stuff in the papers.

If I weren't aware of him in some fashion I'd never think of being a bank's Chief Economist. Just not a position I'm all that familiar with. Yet if Dean is going to an institution that well regarded and finds a passion for something like this, the PHD would pretty much be a requirement.

[PartyGirlUK]

[ QUOTE ]
How likely are you to get Steven Levitt to wear an "lol donkaments", "I put on my robe and wizard hat", or other 2p2 related shirt? (this is a serious question)



[/ QUOTE ]

I think Steve is playing a couple of events at the WSOP this year. I think he would wear the LOL donkaments shirt if you raised enough $ for charity.

[MegaloMialo]

There seem to be some contradictions and uncertainty's here.
In general, i don't understand this type of advice seeking questions. Sure there are people on this forum who are happier then you but that's probably also because they did not need nor asked for advice on how to live their lives.
Just read your own post and you should have your answer.

[turnipmonster]

how long do you have to decide? this may be v obvious, but what you think you should enjoy doing is often v different from what you would actually enjoy doing, which may seem mundane. of course in your situation, it could apply either way, but it's something to consider.

[defixated]

I was an undergraduate at uchicago in the early 90s and took the first-year graduate econ sequence.

1. Some of the professors are unbelievably great (Nobel prizes each year I was there; it's October, must be time for the reception...). You'll study with some brilliant economists and with some geniuses who just happen to be practicing economics.

2. A big factor in your experience is your math background. Do you feel as comfortable with analysis and probability as a math major? The program is full of Chinese students who pretty much all have the equivalent of a BA in math. The whiteys are generally not so well equipped. You can still get through it with intelligence and diligence (cf. Steven Levitt story), but it will be much more work, much less brain candy. With a solid math background you still have to work the problem sets, but you'll have more fun and more free time. OTOH some really great economists didn't have technical undergraduate degrees, but they were v. v. passionate about econ in grad school.

2.5 Do you like math/physics problem sets? Have a look at Dynamic Macroenomic Theory and the Exercises supplement (Sargent will teach from this in the second quarter) and see if you like that sort of thing. Since economics and physics share a lot of machinery, you'll come out of school pretty well equipped to work on anything technical (and/or with all the physics PhDs in finance).

3. It's possible to flunk out of econ grad school at Chicago. I mean really flunk out, not just bail with an MA.

4. A big plus is that if you do want to study this stuff, you'll have great peers in grad school, a good mix of people straight out of undergrad and those a bit older.

5. Chicago has a *lot* of cachet on Wall Street. If you do have ideas about academia, note that while you should go to the best program you can get into, Chicago PhDs have a hard time getting academic jobs because most other departments aren't drinking the "Chicago School" Kool-Aid.

6. No two ways about it: Hyde Park is harsh. Campus t-shirt: "The University of Chicago: Hell does freeze over". Though I hear that the University is doing more to keep its students happy (expenditures on gyms and student centers), a continual muttering during the winter was "...should have gone to Berkeley..."

7. If you're an intellectual, it's hard to beat Chicago for seriousness of purpose. You can wander into truly outstanding seminars on literature (not that post-deconstruction crap), philosophy, math, anthropology, etc. If not, Chicago can be a little precious or a lot pretentious.

A great choice to have; good luck.