|
|
#91
06-07-2006, 11:25 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Theory - EP in Full Ring
This thread exemplifies why there should be separate 6max and FR forums. I'm a full ring player and after I click into a unlabeled 6max HH I immediately click Back without checking out the hand because I've long understood the fact that the two games are as different as tournaments and ring games or hold em and draw.
|
|
#92
06-08-2006, 06:46 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Theory - EP in Full Ring
[ QUOTE ]
RUSE, Yeah, it is possible to argue that you won't win the hand as often as when you are shorthanded than when you are multi-way, but that's not really the point. When you've got a hand like A7s or 76s, you're not really looking to flop a pair, you're looking to catch a big hand that can make a big pot. Implied odds are tremendous in multi-way pots, simply because its so much more likely that someone else catches a piece with you. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I have to agree with you here. And it has been long since i've sat at a FR table. This sort of flashed through my mind when i was writing the post late last night and prompted the writing of the final paragraph. There ARE huge differences between the two (FR and 6max) and this I need to compensate for. I may try to get reacquainted with FR as it definitely has depths to it I hadn't realized fully before. [ QUOTE ] To everyone else: The hands like AJs and KQs also don't fair too well when you raise it because you're most likely to be beaten when you are called. Now this can be argued at a very loose table, and I'm sure you can pick which table situations make it right to raise or limp, but generally even the live ones tighten up significantly when you raise. What you DON'T want is that everyone folds their KTo and QJo, because you're so far ahead of them and can often score 2 or 3 bets while facing no resistance. A raise from EP gets people to fold the hands you beat, and call with the hands that beat you are have live draws against you. I really do think that your 6-max playing has "clouded" your judgement for full ring, especially EP... you either advocate SUPER tight playing or super loose-aggressive playing like you're playing 6-max. There is a comfortable middle-ground in full ring. [/ QUOTE ]
|
|
#94
06-08-2006, 07:19 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Theory - EP in Full Ring
[ QUOTE ]
I've long understood the fact that the two games are as different as tournaments and ring games or hold em and draw. [/ QUOTE ] Playing 6 max shouldn't too different from playing mid/late position in FR, there are of course differences but if you think the games are that different then you're probably not playing very well from LP.
|
|
#95
06-08-2006, 08:49 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Theory - EP in Full Ring
[ QUOTE ]
NewUser2006, OMFG, how the [censored] can you recommend limping KQ/AJ UTG as standard?!?!?! What the hell do you do if some1 raises? [/ QUOTE ] Well you'll never catch me saying it's correct to limp KQo and AJo from EP. They must be suited, and there must be a decent (decent meaning probably >50%) chance that I won't be faced with a big raise from someone in late position. If I am raised, I'm usually going to call unless I'm the only limper or the raise is so big that I'm really getting priced out. You should have a feel for the raiser to know what types of hands he raises to know if KQs or AJs is ahead of that range. Against a typical FRer, they are pretty far behind. You may very well be saving yourself a big pot by figuring out that you're likely behind/dominated preflop.
|
|
#97
06-08-2006, 09:23 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Theory - EP in Full Ring
Devil's advocate here:
First, KQs is listed as a "bread and butter hand" in NLTP (although there are a million disclaimers at teh beginning of the preflop chapter). That group of hands is the best in NL. The book emphasizes that starting hands in NL should be judged based on how well they extract value from opponents, not based on their showdown value (this isn't limit). Also, continuing the devil's advocate (I never open limp), open limping is profitable for hands that play great multiway. Say you have 77. If you raise, you might just pick up the blinds or fold your opponent heads up when you make a big hand. But if you limp, and some of your opponents are terrbile post-flop (like going too far with top pair), then you stand to make more when you do hit a set and they hit top pair/two pair. Yes, position matters alot, but preflop bets (even if you get raised after you limp) are very small compared to the big pay off when the flop hits you (assuming your opponent pays you off).
|
|
#99
06-08-2006, 09:49 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Theory - EP in Full Ring
[ QUOTE ]
Well you'll never catch me saying it's correct to limp KQo and AJo from EP. They must be suited, and there must be a decent (decent meaning probably >50%) chance that I won't be faced with a big raise from someone in late position. [/ QUOTE ] It's always nice to know exactly when there's a better than 50% chance that someone won't raise behind you. Last night I wasn't open limping cause I figured it to be only 42%.
|
|
#100
06-08-2006, 12:28 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Theory - EP in Full Ring
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Well you'll never catch me saying it's correct to limp KQo and AJo from EP. They must be suited, and there must be a decent (decent meaning probably >50%) chance that I won't be faced with a big raise from someone in late position. [/ QUOTE ] It's always nice to know exactly when there's a better than 50% chance that someone won't raise behind you. Last night I wasn't open limping cause I figured it to be only 42%. [/ QUOTE ] You have got to be kidding me. There is no way in hell you can play at a table for a decent amount of time and not know how likely you are to face a raise. Even if you lump the table into groups like "aggressive preflop", "loose passive preflop" you'll know what to do. This ignorance excuse is not going to hold up when debating the merits of a play, because the information you need IS there.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
