Hugo Chavez Death Pool Thread

[zasterguava]

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for starters you are denied medical rights

There are no such thing as "medical rights." Health care is a highly labor and capital intensive service, not an entitlement.

In fact, one of the BEST things about the US is we try to keep government out of health care.

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Lol, its very revealing you thing basic civil liberties should be an 'entitlement'. There is of course such thing as 'medical rights' and I read a very interesting article arguing that the denial of 'basic medical rights' is the most important issue of today with paticular regard to the War on Drugs.

[zasterguava]

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Since socialism is the antithesis of freedom, I want the US to actively oppose him.

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Huh? Canada is moderately socialist and we are completely free. I'm pretty sure norway and sweden are very much socialist countries as well and I believe that Norway is usually ranked close to the top in "best places to live" lists.

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You are far from free, for starters you are denied medical rights as is the US and most other coutntires. I lived in Sweden for 5 years and certainly the popularity of socialism and currents within goverment is evident just from living in the close-knit friendly normal communities, neighbourhoods etc. where there is a real feel of community and well-being, the opposite of the UK which is supposed to have a democratic socialist government.

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What? The nation that has low effective tax rates for non-domiciled residents? The nation that has the center of international finance?

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I dont know what your talking about but I assume you are suggesting that Britain is not democratic socialist. I guess this WIKI segment sums it up;

"The Labour Party grew out of the trade union movement and socialist political parties of the 19th century, and continues to describe itself as a party of democratic socialism.[1]

The Labour Party traditionally was in favour of socialist policies such as public ownership of key industries, government intervention in the economy, redistribution of wealth, increased rights for workers and trade unions, and a belief in the welfare state and publically funded healthcare and education.

Since the mid-1980s, under the leadership of Neil Kinnock, John Smith and Tony Blair the party has moved away from its traditional socialist position towards what is often described as the "Third Way" adopting some Thatcherite and free market policies after losing in four consecutive general elections.

This has led many observers to describe the Labour Party as social democratic or even neo-liberal rather than democratic socialist.[2] Blair himself has described New Labour's political position as a "Third Way"."

[MarkD]

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Since socialism is the antithesis of freedom, I want the US to actively oppose him.

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Huh? Canada is moderately socialist and we are completely free. I'm pretty sure norway and sweden are very much socialist countries as well and I believe that Norway is usually ranked close to the top in "best places to live" lists.

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You are far from free, for starters you are denied medical rights as is the US and most other coutntires. I lived in Sweden for 5 years and certainly the popularity of socialism and currents within goverment is evident just from living in the close-knit friendly normal communities, neighbourhoods etc. where there is a real feel of community and well-being, the opposite of the UK which is supposed to have a democratic socialist government.

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How am I denied medical rights exactly?

[MarkD]

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Since socialism is the antithesis of freedom, I want the US to actively oppose him.

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Huh? Canada is moderately socialist and we are completely free. I'm pretty sure norway and sweden are very much socialist countries as well and I believe that Norway is usually ranked close to the top in "best places to live" lists.

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Meh. The US is "moderately socialist", too. We're pretty free, but we'd be freer without so much government - income tax, Patriot Act, Social Security. And you're not completely free in Canada. Try keeping 100% of the money you earn and see how free Revenue Canada thinks you are.

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Well, I don't equate paying taxes with freedom. I guess you are right in a technical sense, but I personally don't have a problem with taxes because in theory they are a good thing. I like universal healthcare and stuff like that, although I will concede that government mismanages funds.

[zasterguava]

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Since socialism is the antithesis of freedom, I want the US to actively oppose him.

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Huh? Canada is moderately socialist and we are completely free. I'm pretty sure norway and sweden are very much socialist countries as well and I believe that Norway is usually ranked close to the top in "best places to live" lists.

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You are far from free, for starters you are denied medical rights as is the US and most other coutntires. I lived in Sweden for 5 years and certainly the popularity of socialism and currents within goverment is evident just from living in the close-knit friendly normal communities, neighbourhoods etc. where there is a real feel of community and well-being, the opposite of the UK which is supposed to have a democratic socialist government.

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How am I denied medical rights exactly?

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Wakey, wakey. There is a war on drugs. Useful drugs that can help people with serious illness are held from them by the government. Here is the article I cited in another post;

"REASON: The right and the left have joined together in a war against pleasure. What caused this?

Hitchens: The most politically encouraging event on the horizon--which is a very bleak one politically-is the possibility of fusion or synthesis of some of the positions of what is to be called left and some of what is to be called libertarian. The critical junction could be, and in some ways already is, the War on Drugs.

The War on Drugs is an attempt by force, by the state, at mass behavior modification. Among other things, it is a denial of medical rights, and certainly a denial of all civil and political rights. It involves a collusion with the most gruesome possible allies in the Third World. It's very hard for me to say that there's an issue more important than that at the moment. It may sound like a hysterical thing to say, but I really think it's much more important than welfare policy, for example. It's self-evidently a very, very important matter. Important enough, perhaps, to create this synthesis I've been looking for, or help to do that.

REASON: What are the signs that political fusion between some libertarians and some leftists is happening?

Hitchens: One reason the War on Drugs goes on in defiance of all reason is that it has created an enormous clientele of people who in one way or another depend upon it for their careers or for their jobs. That's true of congressmen who can't really get funding for their district unless it's in some way related to anti-drug activity. There's all kinds of funding that can be smuggled through customs as anti-drug money-all the way to the vast squads of people who are paid to try to put the traffic down, and so forth. So what's impressive is how many people whose job it has been to enforce this war are coming out now and saying that it's obviously, at best, a waste of time."

[valenzuela]

Random comments:
1)Zaster, I agree that Venezuela could be even more [censored] up. Latin America has a history of corrupt and [censored] goverments , but IMO Chavez still sucks and is harming Venezuela in the long run. For instance Rafael Correa ( the president of ecuador) is on his way to [censored] up his country as well.
2)the current english labour party is a red as a cucumber
3)Evo Morales isnt such a bad president IMO, I think he is above average for the latinamerica.

[MarkD]

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Since socialism is the antithesis of freedom, I want the US to actively oppose him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Canada is moderately socialist and we are completely free. I'm pretty sure norway and sweden are very much socialist countries as well and I believe that Norway is usually ranked close to the top in "best places to live" lists.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are far from free, for starters you are denied medical rights as is the US and most other coutntires. I lived in Sweden for 5 years and certainly the popularity of socialism and currents within goverment is evident just from living in the close-knit friendly normal communities, neighbourhoods etc. where there is a real feel of community and well-being, the opposite of the UK which is supposed to have a democratic socialist government.

[/ QUOTE ]

How am I denied medical rights exactly?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wakey, wakey. There is a war on drugs. Useful drugs that can help people with serious illness are held from them by the government. Here is the article I cited in another post;

"REASON: The right and the left have joined together in a war against pleasure. What caused this?

Hitchens: The most politically encouraging event on the horizon--which is a very bleak one politically-is the possibility of fusion or synthesis of some of the positions of what is to be called left and some of what is to be called libertarian. The critical junction could be, and in some ways already is, the War on Drugs.

The War on Drugs is an attempt by force, by the state, at mass behavior modification. Among other things, it is a denial of medical rights, and certainly a denial of all civil and political rights. It involves a collusion with the most gruesome possible allies in the Third World. It's very hard for me to say that there's an issue more important than that at the moment. It may sound like a hysterical thing to say, but I really think it's much more important than welfare policy, for example. It's self-evidently a very, very important matter. Important enough, perhaps, to create this synthesis I've been looking for, or help to do that.

REASON: What are the signs that political fusion between some libertarians and some leftists is happening?

Hitchens: One reason the War on Drugs goes on in defiance of all reason is that it has created an enormous clientele of people who in one way or another depend upon it for their careers or for their jobs. That's true of congressmen who can't really get funding for their district unless it's in some way related to anti-drug activity. There's all kinds of funding that can be smuggled through customs as anti-drug money-all the way to the vast squads of people who are paid to try to put the traffic down, and so forth. So what's impressive is how many people whose job it has been to enforce this war are coming out now and saying that it's obviously, at best, a waste of time."

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Ok. What does any of that have to do with my medical rights as a Canadian? I'm not allowed to legally snort coke? So?

Marijuana is still illegal in Canada but that is mainly because of American political influence and I'm pretty sure we are allowed to have a small ammount on us. WHen I say allow, I mean it's not a criminal offense - it basically would get confiscated unless you have x ammount. Other than marijuana I don't know what you are eluding to.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

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for starters you are denied medical rights

There are no such thing as "medical rights." Health care is a highly labor and capital intensive service, not an entitlement.

In fact, one of the BEST things about the US is we try to keep government out of health care.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, its very revealing you thing basic civil liberties should be an 'entitlement'. There is of course such thing as 'medical rights' and I read a very interesting article arguing that the denial of 'basic medical rights' is the most important issue of today with paticular regard to the War on Drugs.

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If you're saying that the war on drugs is criminalizing people who basically have a medical problem, then we agree.

If you're saying that people should be given health care free of charge, then I say tell them to pick it from the tree it grows on.

The labor of other people goes into health care. It is a service. It has a cost. It is not free.

NOBODY in the US is denied health care by law. Anybody who can pay for (themselves or through a 3rd party) it can get it. And THAT is the fair way to do it.

[zasterguava]

To clarify;
and note this is not about privatisation of health care which your getting at.

REASON: The right and the left have joined together in a war against pleasure. What caused this?

Hitchens: The most politically encouraging event on the horizon--which is a very bleak one politically-is the possibility of fusion or synthesis of some of the positions of what is to be called left and some of what is to be called libertarian. The critical junction could be, and in some ways already is, the War on Drugs.

The War on Drugs is an attempt by force, by the state, at mass behavior modification. Among other things, it is a denial of medical rights, and certainly a denial of all civil and political rights. It involves a collusion with the most gruesome possible allies in the Third World. It's very hard for me to say that there's an issue more important than that at the moment. It may sound like a hysterical thing to say, but I really think it's much more important than welfare policy, for example. It's self-evidently a very, very important matter. Important enough, perhaps, to create this synthesis I've been looking for, or help to do that.

REASON: What are the signs that political fusion between some libertarians and some leftists is happening?

Hitchens: One reason the War on Drugs goes on in defiance of all reason is that it has created an enormous clientele of people who in one way or another depend upon it for their careers or for their jobs. That's true of congressmen who can't really get funding for their district unless it's in some way related to anti-drug activity. There's all kinds of funding that can be smuggled through customs as anti-drug money-all the way to the vast squads of people who are paid to try to put the traffic down, and so forth. So what's impressive is how many people whose job it has been to enforce this war are coming out now and saying that it's obviously, at best, a waste of time."

[duvalinalong]

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Question; The realistic alternative to Chavez is a US puppet in the hands of private power screwing over the poor and increasing the imperial ambitions of the US. Polls show that Chavez is popular and has the majoriy of democratic support. Is he really worth singling out as the worlds douchiest leader?

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Oh God. No there is actually a middle oppertunity. It is actually possible to be a sensible leader without being a dictator or being a puppet for the US. There are about a 100 nations in the world that are able to do that, so I cant really see why Venezuela cant do it.

But of course, that doesnt sit well with the extreme left that always think that anyone who arent in direct opposition of the US are automatically the puppets of the US.

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seriously how dumb to say a sensible leader without being a US puppet or dictator.
The united states is not doing well right now. we have our faults, but people have to stop bashing america with tired far-left talking lines. The fact of the matter is if we keep bashing ourselves and not helping ourselves we will become a puppet nation and we will be the people slaughtered.

And I would probably be hung and then hung outside on a telephone wire.