Gay Shower Question

[David Sklansky]

It would seem a five year old should ask this question but I haven't seen it anywhere.

If a man should be criticized for publicly proclaiming that he doesn't want to take a shower with a gay man, than why is it OK for a woman not to want to take a shower with a male co worker?

[pete fabrizio]

I think a distiction may be possible here, along the lines that same-sex showering is generally an asexual activity. E.g., two gay men showering together in the locker room would not be as sexual as a male and a female in the same setting, and even a gay male and a gay female showering together may still be uncomfortable.

On the other hand, you can imagine a gay male saying that he would rather not have to take public showers with another gay male, so it would seem this should be within the realm of acceptable views. Although there are a lot of cases where people are criticized for techinically-acceptable views out of the belief that they hold them for the wrong reasons.

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

ahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaha

[sandman-54]

I'm pretty sure I've thought of something along these lines. I, for one, won't criticize anyone for wanting to refrain from being naked next to someone that is attracted to his or her gender (although you have to admit that the woman is more at risk of being a victim of leering and sexual assault.)

I think the same societal judgement exists with comedy. A black comedian poking fun at whites is more readily accepted than a white comedian poking fun at blacks. We all know this, but we have trouble laughing at the latter (when in public, that is.)

[goofball]

David,

A difference between the two situations:

The woman is assumed to be attracted to men (not necesarily the man she is showering with of courrse)
The straight man is not assumed to be attracted to men.

[Lord_Strife]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the same societal judgement exists with comedy. A black comedian poking fun at whites is more readily accepted than a white comedian poking fun at blacks. We all know this, but we have trouble laughing at the latter (when in public, that is.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that this exsists in our culture way too much. This is why Daniel Negraneu is getting so much heat about his "blackface" skit he did... mainly because he's white and therefore "isn't inclinded to act that way" or whatever nonsense people are posting about.

As for DS's post, I completely agree with Hardaway's intentions but not his delivery. I personally have absolutely no problem with gay people, but I have the same criteria as almost all straight people: understand that I'm not gay and we'll be cool. Hardaway was trapped with his question because the bond between teammates is so close that some people are very uncomfortable with being naked in the locker room and sharing lots of time together, etc.

His opinion is also extremely popular from what I understand and I think the players in the NBA accept that. There are a reason that there are NBA players that're "in the closet" because they know they have nothing to gain by letting the rest of their team into their private life. There are numerous examples of this in other aspects of professional sports including drug use, gambling habits, prostitution, etc. All of us know it exists, but if it's kept on the down low then it's acceptable.

[Shandrax]

[ QUOTE ]
It would seem a five year old should ask this question but I haven't seen it anywhere.

If a man should be criticized for publicly proclaiming that he doesn't want to take a shower with a gay man, than why is it OK for a woman not to want to take a shower with a male co worker?

[/ QUOTE ]

David, you are not five years old anymore.

In 1973 homosexuality got voted not to qualify as a mental disease anymore by the American Psychiatric Association (APA), because of huge lobby work inside the organisation and gay activist groups repediately storming the meetings.

Stupid pseudo-politically correct questions like yours are the result of this unprofessional and obviously non-scientific practice 35 years ago.

[acesfullokings]

[ QUOTE ]

I personally have absolutely no problem with gay people, but I have the same criteria as almost all straight people: understand that I'm not gay and we'll be cool.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that this comment is a little silly as this makes an assumption that a gay person is attracted to you simply because you are the same sex as them, and also that they are going to physically come onto to in some vulgar way, which is also crazy. As a minority I'm sure gay people would want to be pretty sure a potential partner was also gay before making an advance, and if not the advance I'm sure would be quite respectful so what's the problem ...

[Mickey Brausch]

[ QUOTE ]
It would seem a 5-year old should ask this question [about gay people in the shower].

[/ QUOTE ]Can't you wait until they get to be 16-year old ?

[ QUOTE ]
If a man should be criticized for publicly proclaiming that he doesn't want to take a shower with a gay man, than why is it OK for a woman not to want to take a shower with a male co worker?

[/ QUOTE ]If you don't wanna take that shower because you're feeling uncomfortable with people who will turn the shower from a place of relaxation and cleansing to a place of sexaul tension, then there is nothing wrong with that -- whether you're a straight male asked about gay men, or a straight woman asked about men.

But if you don't wanna take that shower because as a woman you hate straight men (or, as a straight male, you hate hays), then that's a no-no.

That athlete guy took the latter course.

Mickey Brausch


PS : BTW, the reaction against a woman saying she hates men is NOT gonna be the same as the reaction against a straight male saying he hates gays. Hopefully, we can see why.

[ALawPoker]

Your question sort of assumes that sexual preference is an absolute (that one is either attracted exclusively to men or exclusively to women). If I agreed that this was the case, I would probably agree that there is no difference between the two statements.

While most people consider themselves exclusively gay or straight and have relations exclusively with one sex or the other, I do not believe that sexual attraction is so concrete. It makes sense that some men, even if they were predominantly attracted other men would choose to lead a heterosexual life if he decides other (societal) factors will make that a better situation for him. But you can't assume that there is some sort of metaphorical brick wall, upon which people on one side might be attracted to you and people on the other side never will be. Thus, when you prejudge someone based on the fact that he is "gay" you are (to some degree) displaying prejudice towards the chosen lifestyle, and not simply towards the potential attraction.

It would be perfectly reasonable to say something like "I'm a little uncomfortable showering with anyone I'm not romanatically involved in, but I still bite the bullet and do it, if I know someone is gay and thus that he is more likely to be attracted to me, it sort of pushes me over the edge and now I err on discomfort." That's different than claiming you are 100% OK with showering with a straight male and 100% not OK with showering with a gay male.

Not that I don't think anyone has the right to be uncomfortable showering in front of anyone for whatever reasons they feel, but this is the logical flaw I see with your conflation that the two situations are identical (and why some people might consider one approach narrow minded, at least if the view were left unexpanded upon). At least when you plant the brick wall between penis and vagina, you can claim that you hold some sort of inherent discomfort in showering with a person of the opposite sex. I would tend to consider this underlying logic equally flawed (because it's still truly a matter of degree), but the reality is that segregating based on gender has been something that society is very much OK with in certain instances. It's a functional societal solution to separate showers, bathrooms, and sports teams based on a person's sex. Men who are born men and also happen to be attracted to other men probably feel they have an equal right to partake in this functionality of society regardless of who they sleep with, so there's a logical difference between excluding them and excluding women. Thus, the irrational degree of the feeling could lead to some sort of harm for society if it's acted upon, so the underlying roots of the discomfort should be explored (whereas with females, it doesn't really matter because we've come up with an easy solution).


I'm not sure if you're referring to someone's specific quote or what, but in conclusion I'll point out that if an athlete said something like "I do not want to shower with him because I know he is homosexual" that should be more acceptable than "I don't want homosexuals on my team because they'd see me in the shower." When a woman sees you in the shower, you know that she's a women and know there is an increased chance that she is attracted to you. The harm of showering with a gay male only has the same effect if you know he's gay.