Is it possible to pick up online poker when you play well live.

[Buccaneer]

I have made a decision to quit online play for a while. I do not seem to be capable of making it a profitable, emotional or intellectual fulfilling activity.

If you wish to just say I suck just go to the next thread. I have gotten that a lot on 2+2 but I come here because you usually get the straight dope. If you think I suck tell me why because I really do want to play online.

The first poker book and the one that has assisted me winning more money was The Psychology of Poker. The second was advanced hold'em and the third was The Miller book on low stakes hold'em. I reread these books on a regular basis.

Live Poker:
I win. Simple. I win. I play hold'em, stud, razz, anything but omaha if I can help it. Limit and no limit. Sure I have my loosing sessions but I do well at the table. I can pick up when Joe Bluffer is raising with trash, or Mr. Position is playing position, or when I am beat or when I am not beat, if I am in a way ahead/way behind situation.

On line Poker:
I am a looser. I tilt easily, I am not able to get any info from the table generally or players. If I come on to the table and make an early call I am bet to death, if I fold till I get a playable hand and then the flop misses me it does not matter what I do. If I fold I encourage bets, if I call or raise I encourage calls but no folds. It is as if the other players can see my cards and thoughts and know just how much I like my hand.

I also seem to be unable to classify players well. I know who is in a lot of hands but I never get a hold on if they have cards or not. I know who seems to be over aggressive, who plays weak aces early, who is rocky, etc. I just do not seem to be able to use collected information to beat the table.

I don't think it is the math of the online game, I think that it is the psychology of the online game that I can not get a grasp on.

Another note, I do ok on online sit and gos. I seem to be able "feel" the other players and know when to push them or when they are pushing me, or simply making a move on me. When the chips have value to them I can play them. In tourneys even in a $5 sit n' go the chips have value in time and psychological value that in online micro limit is just not there. I also suck at "free" online poker. It is a jam fest of sub alpha males that just reload when they loose but for some reason they over come the randomness of fun and gun poker and have millions in play money.

Maybe someone will read this and have an idea about what is going on.

[jtr]

It sounds like your live game benefits a lot from psychology and reads. Online is going to have less of this, it's just inevitable.

Imagine you could play in a live game but you suffered from 90% amnesia about the history of play by your fellow players. Would you still play? Online is not so different from this.

Keep playing live if you enjoy it more and win more.

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]

Imagine you could play in a live game but you suffered from 90% amnesia about the history of play by your fellow players. Would you still play? Online is not so different from this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for your response.

Let me answer the above comments and maybe someone else might give us some thoughts.

The above live game is not, IMO, beatable and I would not sit at it for long. I do not understand if you are suggesting that I am missing out on 90% of the info in on-line games(sometimes I think it is closer to 100%)or that information is just not there.

If I am missing most of the info in online play then perhaps there is a way to learn to see the info. I do know that when I play online I sometimes zone and seem to have a heightened awareness of the probable hands that others are playing. Sometimes I can tell you with about 90% accuracy which hands I am going to win (not counting absolute nut hands). I just know when the villain is calling because of the pot, or he thinks I am bluffing, etc. This zoning seems to be fleeting but very accurate. Can this be learned? Is it fleeting for everyone? Is it teachable?

On the other hand if there is just not a whole lot of information I am missing then should I hit the books, look for areas to improve, track my play again (I quit when party shut down in the US).

[21times20]

it's really simple, get either pokeroffice or a combination of pokertracker and a heads up display program...you will get almost as much information as you do live once you learn to interpret the numbers and you won't even have to pay any attention

[Yoshi63]

I'm assuming you're primarily a cash-game player. Is this correct?

You need to realize that online poker and live poker are VERY different. It is completely true (althought not sufficient) to say that an online game is more difficult/tough than it's live counterpart. Because of this, there is a lot more resistance for players going from live to online, as opposed to someone transitioning from online to live. That is certainly not to say it's impossible my any means, but unless you have good motivation for wanting to start playing online (there are many good reasons) it will be hard.

If you want a good conversion, I've heard people say that an online game (ie 3/6) is equivalent to a 10x that (30/60) for live play. This is probably true in larger casinos. In my experience with smaller casinos with 3-10 games going, 5x is more accurate. So someone who has success at 3/6 live will also have success at .50/1 online, but may struggle with 1/2 online.

Having said all that, there's a lot more to it than simply saying "live is easier." It's also different. People tend to bluff more online. Online games tend to be much more aggressive. True you can't get physical reads on players, but you still have full access to their betting patterns. So it will take longer to figure out a players tendencies/leaks/abilities. This can certainly be frustrating to a live player, who is used to quickly gathering accurate reads w/o much effort.

Since you have a lot less information online, you'll need to play more fundamentally solid than you would in live play. Since your opponents' tendencies are less apparent, it's more difficult to exploit those weaknesses. You'll still exploit players online, but to a lesser extend. Realize, however, that you don't need to exploit anyone to play profitably. By simply playing more solid than your opponents, you give yourself an edge.

To summarize, yes it is possible. And it makes sense that you aren't comfortable online, it's totally different. If you are interested in improving your overall abilities, and even increase profits - I would encourage you to continue trying (and possibly failing) online. Also, I urge you to play significantly lower limits online. You can play 1/10'th limits online and still eventually make more due to faster shuffling/dealing and multiple tables.

Good luck!

[Rek]

[ QUOTE ]
On line Poker:
I am a looser. I tilt easily,

[/ QUOTE ]
Tilt is probably a major reason. You have identified this as a trait when playing online and if true it is a huge leak.

[ QUOTE ]
It is as if the other players can see my cards and thoughts and know just how much I like my hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Once I bought the "see other people's hole cards" software my results improved enourmously.

[kyzerjose]

For me, playing OL can be boring. PO & PT are great tools but the game becomes too sterile.
If you are easily distracted (I'm raising my hand) a live session offers "more" information to stimulate your senses.
When there's more going on around me I know I need to work harder on maintaining my focus.
I rarely tilt when playing live. Call it societal pressure, whatever, but live, a withering glance, a "nice call sir" relieves pressure. OL, shoot, toss the keyboard, rage against the unjust universe or some equally ineffective display of displeasure.
If I do play OL, it's the micros only. Live, I'm comfortable playing up to 8/16 LHE. It's a matter of taste and personal make up.

[Buccaneer]

Quote:
On line Poker:
I am a looser. I tilt easily,


Tilt is probably a major reason. You have identified this as a trait when playing online and if true it is a huge leak.

This is one thing I have really worked on. Once I feel the tilt coming on I am done for the day. I think that it is the speed of the online game that tilts me. I don't have time to process the hand and the emotions of rapid fire suck outs.


Once I bought the "see other people's hole cards" software my results improved enourmously.

I bought a pair of those Xray glasses. You could see the players play naked. That one chick with the big tatas on Party was hot with her clothes transparent.