16s: TT vs overs at best and no fold equity

[aghasax]

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So 50-50 is good enough regardless of stack size if its 6 handed. Cool, that's a leak plugged.

My mistake was waiting for the push fold phase instead of taking this 50-50.

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It seems like you have a misunderstanding of a basic element of SNG's here. Chips won are less valuable than chips lost, so you should stay out of marginal spots early. Confrontations like this only gains those not involved in a hand.

You could easily see this for yourself with SNGPT. Plug in the stacks and set MP to push with AK (I guess TT agains AK is what you mean by race) and you to call with TT. You'll see that 1) it's not a race, TT is actually 56% favorite, and 2) nevertheless your call is breakeven, even with the overlay.

So if it in fact was a race it is pretty bad getting it allin.

[loxxii]

Damn, yall are confusing the crap out of me.

bottom line, so if a 50-50 is not good enough when you have 17bbs, what range would villain have to be raising to make this a push?

maybe, I will get SNG Wizard since maybe SNGPT is obsolete and cant handle these questions.

[AMT]

loxxii,

i think people are just having a hard time picturing a villain with a big stack at a 16 who will only raise hands that beat you here/one that would 100% of the time without exception call a shove, all shorthanded. the reality of it is against most players at this buy in its a pretty reasonable shove.

its also hard to picture a guy who you describe as never folding to the shove but also one who will snap call the shove with AJ, then not open 88....none of the range estimation seems to fit and hence neither does the analysis youre confused on.

anyways, 17bb with this hand is near where id take a flip....but i also rarely if ever have believed in a similar spot to this that i had absolutely zero FE whilst facing a non-dumbass opponent.

[Fishing2do]

folding > calling > pushing. Even if he's a super donkey, if you call it will be a nasty situation. If you push you either win the pot or be all-in for a race(assuming he flips an underpair as much as an overpair). You dont want to take a sort of break-even play against a super donkey. And against an uber player it wont be an +$EV most likely, therefor you'd fold in the first place.

How would you react if he 1/2 pot betted a J+ flop? If you wont call in this spot, its definitely a fold pre-flop

[eurythmech]

Wow, calling is so bad.

[AMT]

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Wow, calling is so bad.

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[Kevin8423]

Hmm this thread is getting a bit confusing. My input will be that I'm shoving this against most players. The given range however wouldn't fit this category of players.

I really don't like calling.

[loxxii]

Does SNGWiz say this a push against say 88+, AJ+, KJ+ with no fold equity? If not, what does his range have to be to make it a push if you have no FE?

[WFDeac]

I couldn't imagine folding this to hardly anyone. Could be wrong though.

[rakemeplz]

This is a dumb question, if we have no fold equity how does sngpt not handle this problem?