Late game AA adventure in Stars 10 10 minute semi turbo

[sapsuckah]

Sherman and all -- I see this a lot on 2+2 but it hasn't been my experience at lower-level tourneys. I often find people bump up their pf raise sizes in an attempt to look stronger with a weak hand. I've seen people raise 6x for 1/3 thier stack and then fold to a push. It's more the exception that the rule, of course, but I see enough people try this with 4x raises (and fold to reraises) that I'd reconsider pushing as a means to maximize value.

Matt

[Sherman]

[ QUOTE ]
Sherman and all -- I see this a lot on 2+2 but it hasn't been my experience at lower-level tourneys. I often find people bump up their pf raise sizes in an attempt to look stronger with a weak hand. I've seen people raise 6x for 1/3 thier stack and then fold to a push. It's more the exception that the rule, of course, but I see enough people try this with 4x raises (and fold to reraises) that I'd reconsider pushing as a means to maximize value.

Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, depending on how deep they are. If someone is fairly shallow and raises 4xBB, they just aren't folding. If they are deep and suddenly raise 4xBB, it ususually means they will fold to a shove.

Doesn't really matter though, I prefer the OPs line to shoving PF anyhow.

[jonnyd]

i dont like to slow play vs people who can hurt my stack especially if they show significan strength preflop and i feel like theres a high % that they will call a shove and i can get it in as a large favorite

[Sherman]

[ QUOTE ]
i dont like to slow play vs people who can hurt my stack especially if they show significan strength preflop and i feel like theres a high % that they will call a shove and i can get it in as a large favorite

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the fact that he can "hurt your stack" should have no bearing on whether you slowplay or not. Your decision should be based on EV. Now your argument appears to be that it is more EV to shove PF. While I agree that he typically calls this shove PF, I feel like OP's line is more long-run EV b/c there is a small chance that villain folds if we shove PF. There is almost no chance he can get away after OP pot-committed him.

As for being concerned with slowplaying, I don't really consider this a slowplay at all. We are committed to the river no matter what cards come out, so what makes the difference when we put the money in.

Sherman

[jonnyd]

i feel like there are enough 8-Q runny flushy boards that i would like to think i could get away from AA on that make shoving more EV. youre right i didnt articulate what i felt very well but i do feel like shoving is more EV and im not afraid to play post flop but i dont feel like we're deep enough to warrant playing fancy when a shove isnt that big of a 3bet given the villain's open size and position

[Sherman]

[ QUOTE ]
i feel like there are enough 8-Q runny flushy boards that i would like to think i could get away from AA on that make shoving more EV. youre right i didnt articulate what i felt very well but i do feel like shoving is more EV and im not afraid to play post flop but i dont feel like we're deep enough to warrant playing fancy when a shove isnt that big of a 3bet given the villain's open size and position

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that we aren't deep is EXACTLY why we shouldn't mind playing fancy. It doesn't hurt us a bit. The only way we get hurt here is if villain folds when a "bad" flop hits (maybe AK high) and he has to fold something like 88 that he would have called PF. However, I think we are so short and he is so committed, that he will c-bet this flop and feel compelled to get it all in no matter what.

I would be much less interested in getting fancy if we had deepstacks.

[ssnyc]

thanks all...did run into 99 for quads...sigh...reload and move on

[TroutMaskReplica]

i don't mind calling preflop, i'm just wondering whether you get more value either a) pushing flop or b) flatting the flop and calling his turn shove/shoving turn yourself? maybe not. i just think your flop raise looks really strong on a very undangerous board