Going All In Before The Flop....

[hamnegger]

i think he wants to play close to the nuts poker early on to reduce variance early on in a tourney. that is not a terrible way to play. its opposite of the younger ram jam accumulate chips style but if he plays it well he can find that one hand to dbl up and go from there. he is from the pot odds go out the window if im a not a favorite school. maybe it works for him.

[jcm4ccc]

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this thread is stupid


im also tired of hearing people say poker isnt all about math. there isn't a single decision you make in poker that isn't fundamentally based in math.

[/ QUOTE ]
how is looking into someone's soul "math"

[/ QUOTE ] "Hmm, you pushed the flop. Let me look into your soul. Yes, I am certain you are bluffing. Well, not 100% certain of course. Let's say 90% certain. However, even if you are bluffing, you are still ahead of me because once again I am playing 74o from UTG. I have a small chance of hitting a gutshot straight on the turn or river; however, the odds you are offering me are not good enough to call. Therefore, though I can read your soul and I know that you are bluffing, when I translate my reading of your soul into math, I calculate that I should fold."

[TFGoose]

Sweet Christ this thread is still here... sigh... okay, one more time:

[ QUOTE ]
i think he wants to play close to the nuts poker early on to reduce variance early on in a tourney. that is not a terrible way to play. its opposite of the younger ram jam accumulate chips style but if he plays it well he can find that one hand to dbl up and go from there. he is from the pot odds go out the window if im a not a favorite school. maybe it works for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, it may be working for him. In fact, according to his posts, I suspect that it is definitely working... at least for now.

The point is, a lot of approaches "work" in the short run. But the game (and this forum) is about identifying decisions, tactics, and betting lines that are profitable in the long run. And if we judge the OPs thinking against that criteria, he's wrong, for all the reasons already discussed here that he for some reason refuses to consider.

Bottom line, if anyone wants to play this way at any of the tournaments I'm playing in, all I have to say to them is the same thing casinos tell people who have a "system"....

"Welcome."

--TFGoose

[nath]

[ QUOTE ]
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this thread is stupid


im also tired of hearing people say poker isnt all about math. there isn't a single decision you make in poker that isn't fundamentally based in math.

[/ QUOTE ]
how is looking into someone's soul "math"

[/ QUOTE ] "Hmm, you pushed the flop. Let me look into your soul. Yes, I am certain you are bluffing. Well, not 100% certain of course. Let's say 90% certain. However, even if you are bluffing, you are still ahead of me because once again I am playing 74o from UTG. I have a small chance of hitting a gutshot straight on the turn or river; however, the odds you are offering me are not good enough to call. Therefore, though I can read your soul and I know that you are bluffing, when I translate my reading of your soul into math, I calculate that I should fold."

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i bet you're a lot of fun at parties

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this thread is stupid


im also tired of hearing people say poker isnt all about math. there isn't a single decision you make in poker that isn't fundamentally based in math.

[/ QUOTE ]
how is looking into someone's soul "math"

[/ QUOTE ] "Hmm, you pushed the flop. Let me look into your soul. Yes, I am certain you are bluffing. Well, not 100% certain of course. Let's say 90% certain. However, even if you are bluffing, you are still ahead of me because once again I am playing 74o from UTG. I have a small chance of hitting a gutshot straight on the turn or river; however, the odds you are offering me are not good enough to call. Therefore, though I can read your soul and I know that you are bluffing, when I translate my reading of your soul into math, I calculate that I should fold."

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i bet you're a lot of fun at parties

[/ QUOTE ]

"That girl is looking at me. I think I have about a 90% chance of getting lucky with her. But I only rate her as a 3 on a scale of 1 to 10. On the other hand, there's a girl over there that is about an 8.2. However, she hasn't looked at me at all, and she's wearing a wedding ring, and she appears to be about 8 months pregnant. So I think I have about a 2% chance of getting lucky with her. So, based on my calculations, I think I should attempt to get lucky with the girl who is a 3. However, do I really want to spend the time trying to get lucky. I could spend my time more profitably joining in the ongoing game of Trivial Pursuit. Based on the competition, I think I have about a 30% chance of winning the game. Winning the game increases my happiness by the power of 3. Still, I enjoy the game even when I don't win, so I'm 100% certain that I will have a good time. Well, you can't be 100% certain of anything. 95% certain that I'll have a good time. Still, Trivial Pursuit requires more energy than I feel like expending at the moment. [censored] it, I'll just go home and jack off."

[4CardStraight]

[ QUOTE ]

"That girl is looking at me. I think I have about a 90% chance of getting lucky with her. But I only rate her as a 3 on a scale of 1 to 10. On the other hand, there's a girl over there that is about an 8.2. However, she hasn't looked at me at all, and she's wearing a wedding ring, and she appears to be about 8 months pregnant. So I think I have about a 2% chance of getting lucky with her. So, based on my calculations, I think I should attempt to get lucky with the girl who is a 3. However, do I really want to spend the time trying to get lucky. I could spend my time more profitably joining in the ongoing game of Trivial Pursuit. Based on the competition, I think I have about a 30% chance of winning the game. Winning the game increases my happiness by the power of 3. Still, I enjoy the game even when I don't win, so I'm 100% certain that I will have a good time. Well, you can't be 100% certain of anything. 95% certain that I'll have a good time. Still, Trivial Pursuit requires more energy than I feel like expending at the moment. [censored] it, I'll just go home and jack off."

[/ QUOTE ]

I came here wondering why the Frick this thread was still alive. Now I know. Thank you sir, thats one of the funnier ones I have seen in a while.

[mornelth]

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"That girl is looking at me. I think I have about a 90% chance of getting lucky with her. But I only rate her as a 3 on a scale of 1 to 10. On the other hand, there's a girl over there that is about an 8.2. However, she hasn't looked at me at all, and she's wearing a wedding ring, and she appears to be about 8 months pregnant. So I think I have about a 2% chance of getting lucky with her. So, based on my calculations, I think I should attempt to get lucky with the girl who is a 3. However, do I really want to spend the time trying to get lucky. I could spend my time more profitably joining in the ongoing game of Trivial Pursuit. Based on the competition, I think I have about a 30% chance of winning the game. Winning the game increases my happiness by the power of 3. Still, I enjoy the game even when I don't win, so I'm 100% certain that I will have a good time. Well, you can't be 100% certain of anything. 95% certain that I'll have a good time. Still, Trivial Pursuit requires more energy than I feel like expending at the moment. [censored] it, I'll just go home and jack off."

[/ QUOTE ]

I came here wondering why the Frick this thread was still alive. Now I know. Thank you sir, thats one of the funnier ones I have seen in a while.

[/ QUOTE ]

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 40.5721 % 40.51% 00.06% { Interested girl, 3 }
Hand 2: 02.7963 % 02.73% 00.06% { Pregnant Girl, 8.2 }
Hand 3: 17.8967 % 17.83% 00.06% { Trivial Pursuit }
Hand 4: 38.7349 % 38.67% 00.06% { Handjob obv }

Looks like a close call between a hand and a 3...

[Quanah Parker]

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I don't come around here too often, and I know nobody asked me, but let me just say that I think the way most of you guys are "responding" to the OP's question is nothing short of apalling.

If the answer to his question is so obvious, then why not give him a very simple reasoned argument against it.

Ad hominem attacks increasingly seem to be the norm around here... Maybe that makes for a fun "locker room" atmosphere, but it certainly doesn't make for a good poker discussion forum, where posters and lurkers can (open-mindedly) think about and debate POKER CONCEPTS.

[/ QUOTE ]best post this thread

[Jeff76]

I felt like my first post DID give a simple reasoned response, and I wasn't attacking OP.

And the best post is definitely the party analysis one.

[mscaces]

Well it seems like this post was very popular but for all the wrong reasons. Very little was discussed about the original question which I believe was misunderstood by most.
The question wasn’t should I fold AA, before the flop? The question was should I EVER fold AA before the flop? Some people took the question as a joke, some said you should never fold AA pre-flop. Others just posted insults. When I posted the question I understood the mathematics of playing AA. Heads up it’s a monster hand and yes even I would not question going all in heads up with this hand, even during the first round of a tournament. My question was designed to find the 1 or 2 situations where you might not play AA. The only answers that should have come up are if you are at the final table and on the bubble to make the money or to move up in earning, or as I have stated at the beginning of a tournament in a multi-way pot. Getting more specific, I am not even talking about fast paced internet tournaments where the rounds are 20 minutes or less. I am talking about slow paced tournaments with lots of entrants with 40 minute rounds. I believe both these are debatable situations and should not have been ridiculed. This board was designed for people to discuss various situations, to find ways to improve there game. It seems that most people on this board are content to follow the basic accepted rules of poker and not evolve beyond that. Many of you have stated that poker is just about math. Again if that were true why isn’t there a computer program that can play championship poker? I have played many of them and beat them all on a regular basis. It has been said that limit poker is a science and that no limit is an art. If this is true, which I believe it is the math argument can be thrown out the window. Although, I do agree that you have to have knowledge of math to be successful. If you read ANY book on tournament poker they ALL say to limit the amount of times you have to go all. Why? It’s very simple, the more times you go all in, the more chances you have of being eliminated. I am not saying don’t go all in, there will be points where you will have to go all in and you can’t be afraid of going all in. I am just saying you should be careful when going all in and pick the best spots to do so. Going all in every time you have a good hand is not poker, that’s gambling. I also guarantee this, that if you were to go all in every time you were the favorite to win over a 4 day period, which is how long the WSOP championship now lasts, you would not make the final table, because chances are on one of those all in pushes you will be out drawn and eliminated. I would rather go all in after the flop where my odds improve and the risk is less. I would rather gather my chips by going after shorter stacks then mine so I don’t have to risk my own stack. I prefer to play heads up hands instead of multi way pots. To me this is all sound tournament play. I will raise when I need to, I will sometimes raise when I don’t have the best hand….not a smart math play I agree, but If I sense weakness and feel some one will fold I will raise. I play position…sometimes any two cards on the button when there are no raises, but only play premium hands in early position. If you disagree with my play fine…you have that right. Average players are the ones that just follow the rules, great players make the rules. Once everyone thought the world was flat, imagine that! So, keep an open mind, continue to ask questions and discuss, that is the only way to improve your game. It’s the little things that will make you great, the nuances, the adjustments you make from the standard rules and math. If you are serious about poker no question should be too silly to discuss or ponder, think and you might learn something or you might just reaffirm what you already knew, but you must always consider the possibilities. Good luck to everyone on their poker games.