Society, Intuition and Logic

[Splendour]

Actually Kurto people don't realize that while they are drawing logical conclusions some of the time they are actually using their intuitive senses almost constantly. Its just that people attach a greater consciousness to logical than to intuitive thinking. Under the 16 basic Jungian personality types there are Sensing Personalities and Intuitive Personalities. I believe the Intuitives are in the minority around 25 percent of the population while the Sensing is around 75 percent.

So you've got to wonder are some people's intuitions more reliable. If you look at psychological mediums and some poker spooks like Ted Forrest this would seem to be the case.

Here's an interesting contrast of Sensing and Intuitive:

http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-p...-intuition.asp

[kurto]

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Actually Kurto people don't realize that while they are drawing logical conclusions some of the time they are actually using their intuitive senses almost constantly. Its just that people attach a greater consciousness to logical than to intuitive thinking.

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What I'm saying though is that often times intuitive thinking IS logical. Its just not happening at the forefront of conciousness. Oftentimes, I may act intuitively at the spur of the moment. But, when asked to analyze, I can often deduce what factors led me to act a certain way. I can formally deduce what was happening 'intuitively.'

I can also sometimes deduce why my intuition was wrong.

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So you've got to wonder are some people's intuitions more reliable.

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I suspect they are. And there's probably a logical reason for it. Poker is an easy example. A good poker player may claim he uses intuition. In reality, he's played 1000s of hands, noticed patterns in people's behaviours and acts accordingly. He may not be able to articulate what he knows intuitively... but make no mistake, that intuition is simply a sharp mind reacting to the information about poker and people that its collected over many hours of playing.

Some people have poor intuition because they're making incorrect conclusions based on the information available or misinterpreting cues.

There's no need to bring in the paranormal.

[Splendour]

Well somewhere in all the logical and intuitive thinking stuff there is some type of variable for comprehension and for speed which I don't no if there's any data that measured this. There probably is somewheres. They study everything these days.

Intuition definitely seems faster it's just not as clearly comprehensible or as easily articulated as logic. I doubt logic trumps intuition because you use intuition more, intuition is used for personal safety and intuition and logic are used in conjuction so they're codependent. Its just you use logic for difficult problems that you spend the most time thinking about so we tend to obsess over the importance of logic.

Edit: then again isn't a hypothesis an inductive or intuitive type of thought that science then tries to prove is false. You start with the intuitive and end with the logical. Is that a correct interpretation of the testing of a scientific hypothesis?

If so then intuition is possibly more linked to creativity than logic is.

[luckyme]

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If so then intuition is possibly more linked to creativity than logic is.


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and the airplane that we decide is right, of all the hundreds that people had intuitions about, is the one that actually flies. That's a logical analysis. That's how you decide which plane is right isn't it. "good planes fly" "this plane flies" "therefore it's a good plane."
Or do you insist it's a good plane because you had such a strong intuition about it that you can ignore the scrap head on the prairie?

It's logic that we use to weed out all the crazy stuff that intuition throws our way. Sure, intuition is linked to creativity, but not nearly as much as people think ( do I have to put in the Edison quotes ).

luckyme

[Splendour]

I see what you're saying. We use logic alot to test things, but I'm starting to see logic and intuition like a pair of oxen. They can be yoked together and most of the time they are, but you can also take them apart to carry on different functions. Reminds me of men and women. Men carry the occasional really big job while women run around constantly with the little jobs. Society would be lost without either one, but how does the disparity of our perception of the value of each affect society? There's probably a billion problematical answers to that question.. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img].

[vhawk01]

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What you call intuition is what I call poorly formulated logic.

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That's not necessarily accurate. Maybe what you call intuition is in fact poorly formulated logic, but most people use it to refer to something different (though there is some overlap, of course).

Logic is tremendously valuable, but the OP isn't complete nonsense. People do sometimes try to use logic when it's not relevant, and "illogical" shouldn't be the universal pejorative that it is now.

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This sounds like a post written by someone who doesnt understand exactly what logic is. Can you give me an example to show me I'm wrong, tell me what you have in mind with this?

[vhawk01]

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What you call intuition is what I call poorly formulated logic. Give me the well formulated version any day.

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Correct.

[vhawk01]

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Quote: Logic trumps intuition, even though there are times when intuition is all we have to go on. If a person starves to death because they have a hunch that sausages are poisonous we don't say " yep, gotta go with that intuition. good on ya.".

A fair chunk of a poker players pay comes from people believing their intuition is delivering good messages. good salesman tap into our intuitions, good politicians likewise.

Your answer luckyme is rife with your current modern perception and culture. In every circumstance logic does not trump intuition. Intuition sometimes goes places where logic cannot.

Another excerpt from the above cited book:

"Intuition is the power of obtaining knowledge that cannot be acquired either by inference or observation, by reason, or experience," says the Encyclopedia Britannica. "As such, intuition is thought of as an original, independent source of knowledge." Also from the encyclopedia: "Intuition is designed to account for just those kinds of knowledge that other sources do not provide." The book goes on to say that primitive man had paranormal abilites, remote viewing being one of them, that allowed him a survival advantage. They believe that remote viewing is what helped the Asians cross the Aleutian Island chain to North America.

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LOL at your examples of poker players, salesmen and politicians. Do you get what you are implying? In each of those situations, the person who is relying on intuition is being fleeced. And you use that to conclude that intuition is good and important. Yeah, I mean, sure, I want YOU to rely on intuition. Heck, I'd rather you just relied on suggestion, that makes my job even EASIER.

[vhawk01]

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[ QUOTE ]
Actually Kurto people don't realize that while they are drawing logical conclusions some of the time they are actually using their intuitive senses almost constantly. Its just that people attach a greater consciousness to logical than to intuitive thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I'm saying though is that often times intuitive thinking IS logical. Its just not happening at the forefront of conciousness. Oftentimes, I may act intuitively at the spur of the moment. But, when asked to analyze, I can often deduce what factors led me to act a certain way. I can formally deduce what was happening 'intuitively.'

I can also sometimes deduce why my intuition was wrong.

[ QUOTE ]
So you've got to wonder are some people's intuitions more reliable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suspect they are. And there's probably a logical reason for it. Poker is an easy example. A good poker player may claim he uses intuition. In reality, he's played 1000s of hands, noticed patterns in people's behaviours and acts accordingly. He may not be able to articulate what he knows intuitively... but make no mistake, that intuition is simply a sharp mind reacting to the information about poker and people that its collected over many hours of playing.

Some people have poor intuition because they're making incorrect conclusions based on the information available or misinterpreting cues.

There's no need to bring in the paranormal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course some peoples intuitions are more reliable. I guarantee you that if you give me a genetics or anatomy or medicine question that I've never heard of before and do not know the answer to but ask me to take a quick guess, my intuition is going to be better than yours. Similarly, there are many areas in which your intuition would easily trump mine. Thats because intuition is trained. A physicists intuition for physics problems is much better than mine.

Havent you guys noticed how much better your poker intuition has gotten over the years?

[vhawk01]

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I see what you're saying. We use logic alot to test things, but I'm starting to see logic and intuition like a pair of oxen. They can be yoked together and most of the time they are, but you can also take them apart to carry on different functions. Reminds me of men and women. Men carry the occasional really big job while women run around constantly with the little jobs. Society would be lost without either one, but how does the disparity of our perception of the value of each affect society? There's probably a billion problematical answers to that question.. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img].

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Intuition is just shoddy logic. It is the rough draft, the first instinct, the random guess. You can often rely on solely intuition because your brain is pretty awesome and your rough draft is very often right. But if you want to go a step further and drastically improve your accuracy, you codify your intuitions and use a systematic approach to decision-making.

And we call that logic.