Hypothetical Management Decision re: non-tipping patron of restaurant

[fraserbrown]

I did manage a restaurant for a while and ran into this a few times, my response was always to serve the customer and do your job. When the customers that tipped well came in there was always a catfight over who got to serve them.

[jbrent33]

I haven't posted in a while but feel infinitely qualified to post about this. I started working in restaurants (as a busboy) when I was 14. I worked my way through college as a bartender and server. I worked for 6+ years at a place that was named top 5 in the US by Bon Appetite, Playboy, Gourmet, and others. The chef was a recipient of a James Beard Award.

After several years of flipping houses I recently invested in an upscale restaurant in Austin (PPA=$45+) I have found myself on the floor quite a bit lately in order to show employees with less experience than myself exactly the level of service that I believe should be delivered.

I have held my irritation in several recent threads, (Stiffing, etc) but I am blown away by the number of people who will walk into a restuarant and purchase a $30+ piece of beef or fish and end up tipping 15% or less.

People who come in parties of 3-6 take up a table for an entire service, then ring up a 300-500 dollar tab and tip 15% are scumbags. We originally didn't have an autograt policy (18%), but I became a convert after a saw the pathetic tips that some parties left when the bill was split.

If you buy a $500 bottle of wine 20% is not expected on that, but you better damn sure tip on the food.

For all those [censored] who say they don't tip , go [censored] yourself and I hope you never set foot in my restaurant. If there is some problem with your service I can assure you it came with good reason, and steps are being taken to eliminate the problem.

Sorry for my rant, but the my position is, when you tip and have to wonder if you should have tipped more, guess what? you should have.

[bigmonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And autograt would be the dumbest possible idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's just another way to tell the customer not to come back. Too bad he wouldn't get the hint.

BTW, people in the US who don't tip suck. Pay a minimal tip (10-15%) and work to get their wages raised. It's the culture in the US to tip and it's built into their income, so don't [censored] them because the system sucks.

Work to eliminate the need to tip.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have never tipped in a restaurant, but I don't live in the USA. I agree that your system sucks. People should be paid fully by their employers and not have to hope or even beg for charity from the people they are serving, who are given a fixed estimate to pay beforehand. This should be the same in every job.
I'm guessing we agree or partially agree on that much. But I don't get how it is fixing the system to keep tipping them until they get paid properly. Surely that is exactly the opposite of fixing the system? Supply and demand would tell us that if everybody stopped tipping then less people would take up these jobs, and employers would be forced to raise wages in order to attract employees.

[z28dreams]

[ QUOTE ]


I have never tipped in a restaurant, but I don't live in the USA. I agree that your system sucks. People should be paid fully by their employers and not have to hope or even beg for charity from the people they are serving, who are given a fixed estimate to pay beforehand. This should be the same in every job.
I'm guessing we agree or partially agree on that much. But I don't get how it is fixing the system to keep tipping them until they get paid properly. Surely that is exactly the opposite of fixing the system? Supply and demand would tell us that if everybody stopped tipping then less people would take up these jobs, and employers would be forced to raise wages in order to attract employees.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think restaurant jobs are an amazing way for young people to make pretty decent money.

One buddy of mine out of college was making near 50k a year serving at a higher-class restaurant.

There's no way in hell that any business owner could justify these types of salaries. All you waiters out there that are crying about bad tips but making $20/hr or more should really shut the hell up. You're overpaid as it it.

It's practically charity that we tip you as much as we do. There are a million high school kids that are more capable and more helpful than you making $10 an hour working other retail jobs.

I tip well, and just consider it a way of helping out the younger crowd while they are broke.

If I owned a business and saw a manager turn someone away because they were a bad tipper I'd fire them on the spot.

[jbrent33]

[ QUOTE ]


I have never tipped in a restaurant, but I don't live in the USA. People should be paid fully by their employers and not have to hope or even beg for charity from the people they are serving, who are given a fixed estimate to pay beforehand.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the United States people are gived a fixed estimate, 15-20% on top of the cost of the meal. Why is that so hard to understand?

If you have never tipped in an American restaurant you are an ethnocentric douche bag who doesn't deserve to travel overseas.

Again, sorry if I'm a little jaded but during SXSW, Austin is filled with European hipsters who continually screw my servers to the point that I end buying tons of alcohol to compensate for all the douche bags

[bigmonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I have never tipped in a restaurant, but I don't live in the USA. People should be paid fully by their employers and not have to hope or even beg for charity from the people they are serving, who are given a fixed estimate to pay beforehand.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the United States people are gived a fixed estimate, 15-20% on top of the cost of the meal. Why is that so hard to understand?

If you have never tipped in an American restaurant you are an ethnocentric douche bag who doesn't deserve to travel overseas.

Again, sorry if I'm a little jaded but during SXSW, Austin is filled with European hipsters who continually screw my servers to the point that I end buying tons of alcohol to compensate for all the douche bags

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never been to an American restaurant. If I did I would probably be one of those who don't tip of their own volition, but begrudgingly pay the service charge you heave on top as standard. Then I will probably never come back.

Have you ever thought about whether it might be you who are screwing your own servers by not paying them what you think they deserve to be paid?

Also, I thought that when I go to a restaurant I am paying for the service in the costs of the meals themselves. I assumed I'm paying for ingredients, trained professionals (depending on the restaurant I suppose) to prepare them, people to serve them to me, use of plates, cutlery etc, bathroom facilities, and other whatnot. If I'm supposed to tip at all, why aren't I supposed to tip the kitchen staff too? Why do people have salaries in life at all, if they can be paid by voluntary contributions depending on the generosity of consumers and the consumer's subjective value for the service being provided? I don't understand the seemingly completely arbitrary convention of tipping certain people. You tip taxi drivers, but not bus drivers, waiters but not chefs. It makes no sense.

Even if the response is: "well that's why we have a service charge on everything you order, which goes to the waiters/waitresses", why couldn't you have just over-charged in the first place and not told me what you pay the staff? Why do I need to be told that they are being paid x% of my bill? Again, why not include in my bill a detailed report of exactly how much of my money is your profit, and how much of it goes towards paying every one of your outgoings?

In my opinion the only reason this thing exists is because it's something the industry can get away with. Once the convention has stuck, people (usually stupid people) feel guilty about "stiffing" these staff money which they shouldn't be paid in the first place. I'm not completely against tipping. I would tip anyone who I thought had done an exceptional job regardless of what job it is they have done. I can't really conceive of what it means for a waiter to have done an exceptional job, since it's quite simple really. And I have been in some very good restaurants. I appreciate that at the higher end of the market the staff are reasonably well-trained. But then their employers should just be paying them more than the average waiters at worse establishments. These top-quality restaurants already charge exponentially more than their less fashionable counterparts, so my best guess would be that they pay their staff more.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
In the United States people are gived a fixed estimate, 15-20% on top of the cost of the meal.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
People who come in parties of 3-6 take up a table for an entire service, then ring up a 300-500 dollar tab and tip 15% are scumbags.

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf

[ QUOTE ]
If there is some problem with your service I can assure you it came with good reason, and steps are being taken to eliminate the problem.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what you are getting at, are you saying that the waitstaff gives [censored] service to bad tippers, and the customer is the problem

or that you are fixing the problem of [censored] waitstaff, in which case [censored] waiters don't deserve a tip

[Billy Bibbit]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In the United States people are gived a fixed estimate, 15-20% on top of the cost of the meal.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
People who come in parties of 3-6 take up a table for an entire service, then ring up a 300-500 dollar tab and tip 15% are scumbags.

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you think of a person who only does the bare minimum?

[RunDownHouse]

It seems like a lot of people view 15% as the floor, or a bad tip. 15% was completely standard 10 years ago, and it seems like it creeps up every year. Statements like, "People who come in parties of 3-6 take up a table for an entire service, then ring up a 300-500 dollar tab and tip 15% are scumbags" just seem way out of whack to me. I tip 15%, and if the service sucks, 10% or less. I've left a dollar or less on multiple occasions.

[NT!]

i think part of the reason for tips creeping upward is that, in mid-level or nicer places, really good servers can earn more than that. i don't know what it is - more young people going out to eat, change in restaurant culture, who knows - but eventually they start to be disappointed in 15%. not that they hold it against the customer particularly, but they are always trying to make 20% or better, that's what makes them a good server.

well then eventually the less excellent servers start feeling the same way, and wanting to make more than 15% too. i feel like the concept of waiting tables as a real money-making enterprise kind of rose up more and more in the last few decades, and with it, so did the pressure to tip.

might be totally off as i am pretty young, but just from talking to people who have been in the industry for a while and observing things, that's my guess.