live etiquette: he hasn't mucked but doesn't want to show 'em

[creedofhubris]

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very risky, though. if he mucks and someone else wants to see your hand and you have mis-called it they might award your opponent the pot. bad situation to be in. just don't be a douche and everything will be fine. if you want to see his hand, say 'muck or show'. if you dont care, just table your hand or announce it correctly.

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Of course I want to see his hand, otherwise I'd just announce and move on...

I find it interesting that they will take the pot away from you for misrepresenting your hand and causing the other guy to muck. Mostly because I've been taught that when you muck you can't win the pot, pretty much no matter what, even when the dealer accidentally mucks your hand.

[TheGrifter]

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very risky, though. if he mucks and someone else wants to see your hand and you have mis-called it they might award your opponent the pot. bad situation to be in. just don't be a douche and everything will be fine. if you want to see his hand, say 'muck or show'. if you dont care, just table your hand or announce it correctly.

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Of course I want to see his hand, otherwise I'd just announce and move on...

I find it interesting that they will take the pot away from you for misrepresenting your hand and causing the other guy to muck. Mostly because I've been taught that when you muck you can't win the pot, pretty much no matter what, even when the dealer accidentally mucks your hand.

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If I mucked my hand because someone purposely mis-repped what they had I would either get the pot, or beat the other guy to within an inch of his life.

Either way works.

[Ghazban]

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usually he's expecting you to call your hand here, like say "a pair" or "ace high" or something. this is one of those things that I feel like people always used to do but not so much anymore. saying "show or muck" is fine but might be considered a little rude by some older players. I almost always call my hand in your spot.

--turnipmonster

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That sounds exploitable. You just claim a better hand than what you have (in this situation) and then say you misread the cards if he doesn't muck and you have to show. Especially if you've called down with ace high and you suspect he's on some small pair due to this interplay on the river; "bluffing" him into mucking would be an enormous coup.

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This is an angleshoot. In many rooms, if you induce a muck by miscalling your hand, you will lose the pot. Obviously, people will occasionally make such a miscall purely by accident and they will let that slide but you will usually not get away with it more than once.

[thabadguy]

Seriously wow!
In this situation, i just say my hand...stop being a dick...this is a reason why online players get hated at live games..
Have some fun!
"I got a pair"
"I got a set"
"I got nothing"
"Alright ..u win"
watever...
Any1 will tell u its +EV to have the fish liking you, or at least not hating you.

[Apathy]

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Any1 will tell u its +EV to have the fish liking you, or at least not hating you.

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I realy dont think this is true in live NL, I HSNL with some people who the whole table hated and it got them sick action.

[TheGrifter]

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usually he's expecting you to call your hand here, like say "a pair" or "ace high" or something. this is one of those things that I feel like people always used to do but not so much anymore. saying "show or muck" is fine but might be considered a little rude by some older players. I almost always call my hand in your spot.

--turnipmonster

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That sounds exploitable. You just claim a better hand than what you have (in this situation) and then say you misread the cards if he doesn't muck and you have to show. Especially if you've called down with ace high and you suspect he's on some small pair due to this interplay on the river; "bluffing" him into mucking would be pathetic angle shooting .

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fyp

[El Diablo]

creed,

As the other live NL players in this thread have written, this one's pretty easy.

Bet
Call
"you got me"
"one pair?"
"good"
show

Now, sometimes, against some players, as soon as they say "you got me" we both know I am good, so I just flip. That is generally someone I've played against a fair amount. And if I have TPTK or better, I generally just show immediately, since it is always good. But against an unknown when I'm holding a weak bluff catcher, I will normally call my hand. Sometimes it goes like this:

Bet
Call
"you got me"
"pair good?"
"which one?"
"seven"
"good"
show

I actually like shaniac's plan the least. I think silently waiting is better than "show or muck" but both imo kinda suck. As tbg says, HAVE FUN! There's a sort of code of conduct that a lot of live players play with and part of that involves opening your hand out of order when you know you are best.

[El Diablo]

coh,

I only know of one poker room where they enforce the miscalling your hand rule. I would be pleasantly surprised to learn that more rooms are adopting that rule. (ie: you have to show what you called after opponent mucks his hand)

[Lyric]

This seems a poor system. I don't want to be encouraging players to bluff me by allowing them to have a peaceful showdown after firing three barrels at me. They should at least know they're open mucking or showing the bluff when I call them.

People will lie about their hand in these spots as well. Recently I called three shots with 76 on a KQ744 board. At showdown after he was all-in, he said "pocket eights." I wait and he finally tables 82o for 8 high no draw.

In this situation if I open first I hurt myself in two ways. I don't get to see if he was semi-bluffing with JT, and he gets to see how I play.

Just because someone obviously doesn't want to show doesn't mean you shouldn't politely wait for them to table or muck. It's common practice in live games to table out of turn in these situations, but it's -EV, especially in live poker where you're seeing 20 hands/hour and every tabled hand is extremely valuable.

[gergery]

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usually he's expecting you to call your hand here, like say "a pair" or "ace high" or something. this is one of those things that I feel like people always used to do but not so much anymore. saying "show or muck" is fine but might be considered a little rude by some older players. I almost always call my hand in your spot.

--turnipmonster

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That sounds exploitable. You just claim a better hand than what you have (in this situation) and then say you misread the cards if he doesn't muck and you have to show. Especially if you've called down with ace high and you suspect he's on some small pair due to this interplay on the river; "bluffing" him into mucking would be an enormous coup.

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The vast majority of the time, however, your opponent will say "that's good" and wait for your to show your hand to claim the pot. If you then show that you've lied, your credibility is shot for good.

-g