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#11
11-21-2007, 11:59 PM
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Re: i float possible tilty guy and hit, what\'s my river plan here
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You think he is gonna keep firing bullets and bullets every single time? I'm calling in position with what is often the best hand, to re-evaluate the turn, where I can fold or make a move, etc. I think 3bet shove here is pretty insanely bad. Oh I see you wrote OOP... I am not OOP, he is. That's a very big diff here. [/ QUOTE ] ya i thouggt you were OOP, but still the flop is pretty f'in ugly. youre hand isnt "often" best i dont think, and if you think hes fos then shove i hate calling becasue you only hit on the turn 6/47 times so < 13% of the time, and hes almsot always firing at any turn if you call the flop. also sometimes you get stacked when you do hit one of your "outs" becasue villain may have a set, or hit a a flush, or hit AX 2 pair, etc etc [/ QUOTE ] I think shoving this flop is way too drastic, we're too deep and it lets him play perfectly. If the pot was 3bet preflop or something it's different, but a shove or committing raise would be crazy oversized here. I also disagree that he's firing every turn here, if I thought he was, then yeah I fold easily. Oh and my "often best" specifially applies because my read is this guy is looking to play back at me and thinks I am FOS. 
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#13
11-22-2007, 12:02 AM
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Re: i float possible tilty guy and hit, what\'s my river plan here
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[ QUOTE ] so you called a flop raise w/no pair, you turn a pair, bet it like a wuss, and now you're not sure what to do on the river. this tells me you should have folded to the flop raise. [/ QUOTE ] I bet the turn to get a raise or at least a call from weak hand. You think just potting the turn here is going to get a good results in any way? Maybe. To me, betting big on this turn is basically letting the opponent play perfectly, unless I have a read that he's a big calling station. As for a river plan, this river isn't a blank, and I'm not going to fold every flop where I don't have a specific plan for when 2 very specific cards (TPTK hits for me, and then flush completes) hit. I mean, you don't see that if the turn is diff, or the river is diff, this hand is insanely easy to play? [/ QUOTE ] most of the time that turn card doesn't change anything. i mean, he's usually not gonna expect you to be calling flop raises w/overcards. on the turn, if he has JJ/TT type of hand, he's gonna call a 3/4 pot bet. if he has a flush draw, he will call as well. our hand still rates to be best at the river, so why not bet and hope he makes a curious call w/a worse hand. also, betting more on the turn makes shoving this river and getting a call much easier.
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#14
11-22-2007, 12:11 AM
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Re: i float possible tilty guy and hit, what\'s my river plan here
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i have a feeling asking for advice, an then actually thinking about that advice critically, is not one of your strong points [/ QUOTE ] I feel like I did think about it critically, and then I replied to it dude. I definitely think I am getting advice that's not related to my question, ie. what do I do on this specific river. People saying "fold flop" everytime a weird card hits on the river or "this is terrible, dont call this OOP this is horrible" who didn't even read the hand through properly... how many hours do you think I need to pore over that advice.
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#15
11-22-2007, 12:16 AM
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Re: i float possible tilty guy and hit, what\'s my river plan here
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] so you called a flop raise w/no pair, you turn a pair, bet it like a wuss, and now you're not sure what to do on the river. this tells me you should have folded to the flop raise. [/ QUOTE ] I bet the turn to get a raise or at least a call from weak hand. You think just potting the turn here is going to get a good results in any way? Maybe. To me, betting big on this turn is basically letting the opponent play perfectly, unless I have a read that he's a big calling station. As for a river plan, this river isn't a blank, and I'm not going to fold every flop where I don't have a specific plan for when 2 very specific cards (TPTK hits for me, and then flush completes) hit. I mean, you don't see that if the turn is diff, or the river is diff, this hand is insanely easy to play? [/ QUOTE ] most of the time that turn card doesn't change anything. i mean, he's usually not gonna expect you to be calling flop raises w/overcards. on the turn, if he has JJ/TT type of hand, he's gonna call a 3/4 pot bet. if he has a flush draw, he will call as well. our hand still rates to be best at the river, so why not bet and hope he makes a curious call w/a worse hand. also, betting more on the turn makes shoving this river and getting a call much easier. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I agree on this, in retrospect I do wish I bet more on the turn, although maybe that's results-oriented, I was probably just thinking too much that he was gonna make a move on me on the turn also or something. Meh. I do think I played this hand bad, I ended up checking the river, I just couldn't see what worse hand could call a shove and I felt like my hand was face up more or less as being pretty strong and ahead of something like 9s or Ts. I think a river check is bad, and curious what the general 2p2 line would be here.
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#16
11-22-2007, 12:58 AM
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Re: i float possible tilty guy and hit, what\'s my river plan here
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wtf are you doin on the flop? either 3bet-shove or just fold to the raise. calling oop with A-high, no draw, is terrible in that spot [/ QUOTE ] Doesnt villain need to fold >70% of the time for a shove to be +ev here?
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#18
11-22-2007, 01:34 AM
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Re: i float possible tilty guy and hit, what\'s my river plan here
floating is not how you should play back here. Shoving the river is a no brainer and the fact that you don't know that only supports my first statement
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