A-Q OOP !

[DickieBets]

I just hate the way I played this hand .

CO is unknown. What do you make of this - I feel it may have been a bluff - only, Aces,Ks or Qs had me beat - what does everyone think ? It probably would have been easier if I 3-bet preflop - right ?

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

BB: $16.15
UTG: $36.50
MP: $74.15
CO: $29.60
BTN: $23.45
Hero (SB): $60.10

Pre-Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
2 folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $1</font>, BTN folds, Hero calls $0.90, BB folds

Flop: ($2.25) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">CO bets $1.75</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $5</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $9.25</font>, Hero calls $4.25

Turn: ($20.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">CO bets $19.35 and is All-In</font>, Hero ???

[gfejs]

I dunno he raised on the cutoff so he is representing a big hand when he 4 bets you on that flop... I would prolly have called this down (not raised the flop) but that might be as I saw the action given [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

[yegon]

he seems to be representing AA/KK and maybe QQ although QQ would probably bet smaller on the turn to give you odds in case you are drawing

he might be playing like this with KQ,QJ if he thinks you are stealing over his cbet (players never give credit) and he is short so I guess you have to call

I don't see how if you 3bet pf this is getting easier. You'll have to stack off anyway, you just give him a chance to fold worse hands

[iheartponeez]

I don't believe anything anyone says about 3-betting making things easier. At micros there are so many people flatting your 3-bet with monsters, or flatting your 3-bet out of spite with a junk hand (and then sometimes playing back at you since they've come that far), that I don't know what information anyone garners from it.

I 3-bet to set up an easy all-in on a hand that's going to want it, never for information. AQ is a hand that I'm not so comfortable stacking off with, so I rarely 3-bet it. If you get the sense that this guy is playing you light, go for it, but if you've both been standard, I don't see a reason to get into a war with AQ.

[Lego05]

3betting AQ is oh so standard except against some really nitty players....You'll take it right there a lot and most of the times you don't you win with a c-bet on the flop. And most of the time I'd get my stack in on an A or Q high board.


People really need to open up their 3betting range. You can't just "3bet to set-up an easy all-in on a hand that's going to want it." 3betting hands as bad as suited connectors, low to mid-pairs will need to be done at vs. certain opponents...even 3betting garbage in the right spots will be +ev and also help to cultivate an image.



As played I just call the flop. His range is extremely wide (flush draw is a very small part of it) and there is no reason to raise.

Now he mini3bet you and now this spot sucks. I probably call and then check and call that turn shove. He could have a worse Q like KQ, maybe QJ or maybe like JJ,TT getting stubborn on the 1 overcard board or some stupid draw....or stupid bluff.

I of course would not be surprised to lose this to like AA,KK or perhaps 76s.

[matrix]

reraise preflop.

because:

we are OOP
we have a top hand (I'd 3bet AQs but not AQo mostly)
we are happy (very happy) to win this preflop.

once we 3bet and flop TPTK just push the flop - or c/r all-in if you think villan bets the flop.

the idea is that we want to generate a good pot:stacksize ratio for the remainder of the hand. Yes someimes he has QQ+ here and we get coolered - but it makes it way easier to stack a moran with KQ here if the pots BIG on the flop.

as played your flop raise is too small. You want to bump this to ~$6.50.

Do you have any reads on this villain - his flop rereraise is shouting that he has TPTK beat.

[ QUOTE ]
and he is short so I guess you have to call

[/ QUOTE ]

villain has more than a 100bb stack at the start of the hand - hardly short.

This is a villain specific call I think - vs a TAG or a tight player or a call station I dump this to the flop reraise - vs a lag or a standard donk I go broke with tptk here.

[iheartponeez]

[ QUOTE ]
3betting AQ is oh so standard except against some really nitty players....You'll take it right there a lot and most of the times you don't you win with a c-bet on the flop. And most of the time I'd get my stack in on an A or Q high board.


People really need to open up their 3betting range. You can't just "3bet to set-up an easy all-in on a hand that's going to want it." 3betting hands as bad as suited connectors, low to mid-pairs will need to be done at vs. certain opponents...even 3betting garbage in the right spots will be +ev and also help to cultivate an image.



As played I just call the flop. His range is extremely wide (flush draw is a very small part of it) and there is no reason to raise.

Now he mini3bet you and now this spot sucks. I probably call and then check and call that turn shove. He could have a worse Q like KQ, maybe QJ or maybe like JJ,TT getting stubborn on the 1 overcard board or some stupid draw....or stupid bluff.

I of course would not be surprised to lose this to like AA,KK or perhaps 76s.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't deny that lighter 3-betting can be called for, but at 25NL is the villain that you want to be doing this on all that common?

Or is it just a good move? My fear (and tell me if this is silly/wrong) is that the "standard" hands that I think most villains are flatting my 3-bet are JJ+ and AK. The difference between AQ vs. that range and AK vs. that range is pretty big, plus I'm now OOP, holding what is often a marginal hand (that's only hitting 1/3rd of the time anyway, and sometimes connecting on a KQx board).

Do you have any specific advice for playing 3-bet boards OOP with hands like AQ, or even suited connectors and such? Do you still 3-bet this vs. a guy that you figure will call you down with, say, 99 on a 338 flop? You say that sometimes you should 3-bet low/mid pairs. What board are you happy to get all-in with holding 66 without hitting your set? I mean, I understand it against a maniac or something, but what usual villain?


Is there a sticky on all this somewhere, too? 3-betting is a huge empty flatland for me.

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3betting AQ is oh so standard except against some really nitty players....You'll take it right there a lot and most of the times you don't you win with a c-bet on the flop. And most of the time I'd get my stack in on an A or Q high board.


People really need to open up their 3betting range. You can't just "3bet to set-up an easy all-in on a hand that's going to want it." 3betting hands as bad as suited connectors, low to mid-pairs will need to be done at vs. certain opponents...even 3betting garbage in the right spots will be +ev and also help to cultivate an image.



As played I just call the flop. His range is extremely wide (flush draw is a very small part of it) and there is no reason to raise.

Now he mini3bet you and now this spot sucks. I probably call and then check and call that turn shove. He could have a worse Q like KQ, maybe QJ or maybe like JJ,TT getting stubborn on the 1 overcard board or some stupid draw....or stupid bluff.

I of course would not be surprised to lose this to like AA,KK or perhaps 76s.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't deny that lighter 3-betting can be called for, but at 25NL is the villain that you want to be doing this on all that common?


[/ QUOTE ]

I've played less than 175 hands at 25Nl in my life. However, against a CO raiser I'm 3betting AQ unless villian is like 10/4 with an attempt to steal = 6. Then I probably won't.


[ QUOTE ]

Or is it just a good move? My fear (and tell me if this is silly/wrong) is that the "standard" hands that I think most villains are flatting my 3-bet are JJ+ and AK.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's silly/wrong. And if it were true it would be +ev to 3bet them with ATC unless their PRF% was incredibly tiny.

[ QUOTE ]

The difference between AQ vs. that range and AK vs. that range is pretty big, plus I'm now OOP, holding what is often a marginal hand (that's only hitting 1/3rd of the time anyway, and sometimes connecting on a KQx board).


[/ QUOTE ]

Your opponent's hand will miss most of the time too and now you have the intiative.
[ QUOTE ]


Do you have any specific advice for playing 3-bet boards OOP with hands like AQ, or even suited connectors and such?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well generally c-bet the flop and check/fold to further action unless you hit something. Generally felt with a set, 2 pair, an A or Q high board, a flush draw with 2 overs with your AQ....some other hands as well......play poker.


[ QUOTE ]
Do you still 3-bet this vs. a guy that you figure will call you down with, say, 99 on a 338 flop?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. This villian can just as likely have AK/AJ and lots of other hands on the flop....and the flop isn't always coming 8 high when he has 99. And it disguises me stacking people with QQ+ against their low overpair on these all low card boards.



[/ QUOTE ]

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]


Is there a sticky on all this somewhere, too? 3-betting is a huge empty flatland for me.

[/ QUOTE ]


Some 3bet situations:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post8421343


unl Concept of the Week number 2: 3betting light

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post7886535


Why 3bet pre-flop with hands like AJ:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post8080872


Discussion on 3betting with AK:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...164#Post7589523



All from:


http://www.pr0crast.com/2+2.NL.Anthology.v1.htm