Micro / Medium Stakes

[thoman8r]

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I am confused and loose slowly the confidence i got in 3 months of succes in medium stakes.

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3 months? Not nearly enough time to know you are a winner. My guess is you ran well at the "medium" stakes and now are seeing how you truely play. Also, you are not rolled for .05/.10 6max. $30 is not enough so maybe you play scared. Drop down to .01/.02 and follow BR management before moving up.

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# of deposit =/= bankroll

Just because he's depositing $30 at a time does not mean he's not rolled for NL10.

OP - how many hands have you played at NL10?

[restinpeace]

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RIP,
I am in a very similar position as you, having been a winning player at .50/1 (NL100) back before the US legislation scared a lot of us off. I pulled all of my money off and have only recently started playing online again.

This time I started with $30 a friend lent me from his online bankroll. I've played 50c - $5 SnGs and 1c/2c and 5c/10c full ring since I came back and had a difficult adjustment at first. (For those who might ask, starting with this $30 roll was a choice. I could have just paid my friend for much more, but I decided I wanted to see if I could do this.)

There are a few things to keep in mind when playing super-micro (1c/2c and 5c/10c) that will help you make the transition. (It turned into more than I expected, so call it my "10 Suggestions for Super-Micro".)

1. Most players at this level are bad. I don't mean they're not very good, I mean they are BAD. Calling down with bottom pair, chasing flushes when they are clearly priced out, thinking TPTK is a great hand, even with a four-flush and four-straight on the board, etc.

2. Bluffing IS possible, but you really have to pick your spots. A good example is when you think your opponent has a decent PP and you're drawing. An ace hits the turn. It missed you, but you're pretty sure if you had one, it would beat your opponent. This is a perfect time to try a bluff. If you get called, you'll most likely need to give it up.

3. Play tight. OK, so this one is pretty self-evident. Still, it can't be said enough. While you're getting the hang of things at this level, stop playing AT and PPs lower than 88 from EP. Once you start to get a feel for the table you can loosen up a bit, but starting tighter will help lessen the variance.

4. They are not bluffing. Few people at this level bluff. Therefore, if they're betting out, they THINK they have the best hand or can catch it. That doesn't mean they DO, but they think they do. You'll be surprised at how many think they have the best of it with third pair.

5. Min-bets are for losers. Don't min-bet unless you WANT a call. If there are five people in the pot on the flop and you min-bet, expect at least three callers. Conversely, if someone else min-bets and you're on a draw, you have to call. There's nothing more fun that setting a guy off by catching your card on the river because he kept pricing you in. They get mad because you chased, but you know if they had bet more you would have folded.

6. Beware of the Short Stackers. Playing NL2 and see five stacks around 20 cents? Those are Short Stackers (SSers). They will be pushing pre-flop if they play a hand. Some will limp PF and push the flop, but the idea is the same. Take the skill out of the game in hopes of a quick double/triple so they can rat-hole their winnings. There are two things you can do to combat the SSers. A) Don't sit if there are more than two or three - and don't sit with them on your left. B) Don't call unless you have a big hand (TT+/AQ+). Note: Some SSers are better than others. Pay attention to which ones push with crap and which wait for a monster.

7. If you think your opponent is chasing, he probably is. And boy, do they love to chase. A lot of players at these levels will chase flushes like they already have the best hand. And it doesn't matter how high their flush is. 52 suited? That's a monster if they hit the flush as far as they are concerned. Make them pay to chase. You must bet at least the pot if you think your opponent is chasing a flush. Anything less and they are certain to call. By over-betting the pot, you make it a bad mistake for them to call.

8. Straights are frequently NOT chased. Don't ask me why this is, perhaps some of them just can't see that J9 in their hand and 8KT on the board makes for a straight draw. Regardless, straight-chasers are a lot less common than flush-chasers.

9. Think they can't have two-pair on a K73 board when you raised PF? Think again. There are some players who will play any A, any K and any suited Q. Hell, there are some who will play ATC as long as they are suited. (Hence the once-common refrain, "it was sooted!") Reading your opponent at these levels is much more difficult than NL50 or NL100 because at those levels most players only play real hands. At NL2 and NL10, you'll commonly find people who really do play just about anything. If you use Poker Tracker, you'll likely even find some with stats like 80/5/1. (Yes, that would be seeing 80%+ of all flops.)

10. Finally, the biggest rule for playing NL2 and NL10 is to be patient. You will go a round or two (or four or five) between hands you play. You will get sucked out on by a KQ who calls a raise, re-raise and a push PF. And you WILL have losing sessions. But be patient and you can make money and build your bankroll .

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Ty for your clever reply . I'll do it [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[restinpeace]

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OP - how many hands have you played at NL10?

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Sorry i can't really answer.
I did not made run PT since i play micro (ok i realize this is a mistake now). All i can say is i played about 80-100k hands on .25/.50 for solid/constant profit over 3-4 months.
In NL10... may be 10-15k (only feeling ) , ok it s definetly not enough to know but hey it s " only " NL10 héhé !

[VLV]

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stop playing AT and PPs lower than 88 from EP.

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I don't agree with that, raise every PP from any position. Hitting sets will make up a huge potion of your winnings, and why would you be raising 88 in early pos if not for set value? What's the difference between 88 and a lower pp? Are you seriously planning on playing 88 as an overpair? That would be pretty crazy.

[Gonso]

05/.10 is virtually as bad a play gets in NLHE - if it's beating you long term -in fact, if you are not killing it- then you are not making the right adjustments.

I'm more inclined to believe that you just ran well at the higher limit. It sounds like that might be a tough pill to swallow considering your response to johnnydrama, but I think it's the most likely answer.

The idea that "they play so bad you can't beat them" is nonsense, so is the "move up to where they respect your raises" bit. A player who understands and practices fundamentally strong poker skills will kill those limits for crazy long-term winrates.

Take your difficulties as a sign of some serious leaks and do your homework. Obviously you realize something is wrong or you wouldn't have posted this... also, it looks like your bankroll managment could use a little work... search for some threads on that and you should get some help.

Also: get into Cardrunners FTW

[Nsight7]

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stop playing AT and PPs lower than 88 from EP.

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I don't agree with that, raise every PP from any position. Hitting sets will make up a huge potion of your winnings, and why would you be raising 88 in early pos if not for set value? What's the difference between 88 and a lower pp? Are you seriously planning on playing 88 as an overpair? That would be pretty crazy.

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I am not certain I agree with this at the 2nl and 5nl levels and such. I mean, you will create volatile situations for yourself raising with hands like 66 at a 5nl table with an average viewflop of 60% and a avg potsize of $3. You will get reraised often enough, and with enough force, that you will not much like calling, because that guy to your left is definitely willing to put K9s all-in preflop.

Since they don't know what you are doing at all they are all pretty uniformly bad, being a bit weak-tight is probably a better line, because like has been said before here, even middle pair gets overvalued, much more so TPTK or even TP craptastic kicker. If you flop a set on a flop with an Ace or a King on it, you will double pretty fraggin' often no matter what your line was preflop. Basically I am saying don't price yourself out and let them do the raising for you and then punish them for it on later streets. It will keep your variance low and probably still enable a very solid win-rate at this level.

Weak-tightish = bad at 100nl
Weak-tightish = just about right at 2nl

[restinpeace]

ty Gonso , your post make good sense but don t forget it s hard to think when your confused , without a big experience, you seach here and here some explanations. we must be humble enought to restart from NL2 or NL10.

[kayaker]

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stop playing AT and PPs lower than 88 from EP.

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I don't agree with that, raise every PP from any position. Hitting sets will make up a huge potion of your winnings, and why would you be raising 88 in early pos if not for set value? What's the difference between 88 and a lower pp? Are you seriously planning on playing 88 as an overpair? That would be pretty crazy.

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I want to stress that the suggestions I posted are for someone just starting out at NL2/NL10 who is used to playing higher stakes. Once one gets experience at these levels, more hands become playable.

With respect to this particular issue, I started out playing much like you suggest. I would play just about any PP from any position as long as it was relatively cheap. The problem comes when you limp or raise in EP with a crappy pair and get two callers. Worse, someone re-raises and gets one caller before it gets to you. What do you do with your 55 then? You're out of position and the stacks at these levels (usually averaging around 1/2 the max buy-in) make it unprofitable to be forced into always playing for a set.

Once you get to 88, you begin to have the ability to sometimes play them as an overpair. That's not to say that 88 will be an overpair often, but it starts to get into the realm of profitability.

This is a prime example of where position means a lot. From LP, I'll play any PP for a raise or limp when I'm able. But from EP, you need to have a higher expectation. Perhaps you disagree and feel you can play any PP from EP and make it profitable. I found this to be a leak in my game, as I was frequently raised or re-raised (often by a short stack) and had to fold. Some might even say you need at least TT from EP to play, and on some tables I would agree. But on the whole, I think 88 is a good rule of thumb until the table tells you otherwise.

[kayaker]

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Weak-tightish = bad at 100nl
Weak-tightish = just about right at 2nl

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Precisely why many people making that transition down have so much trouble at NL2. Aggression, when not properly applied, will often cost you money at this level. Too many players just will not fold.

[johnnydrama]

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Once again .. it s not nice lol and it's possible. Not to bash back you cause it s nice from you to answer at my post, but come get a look in "calland" and see if things are really easier than higher when you r in jungle.

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Not sure what all that says but translation tells me you did not like the response. One thing you have to get used to here on 2+2 is brutally honest advice. Take it, trust me. Variance can be a wonderfull thing on the good side and a bitch on the bad side. You are probably seeing both sides.