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#1
10-24-2007, 11:18 AM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] My ultimate goal is not to sink the company. I want them to pay for their mistakes. I also want them to be a good company going forward. Am I off base here? [/ QUOTE ] I'm not privy to the info you have but I don't have this kind of forgiveness. I've heard too many stories to every trust these guys again. [/ QUOTE ] What I don't get is why anyone would WANT to trust them again? This just seems a bit naive to me. Are people sitting behind their computers actually hoping against hope there is a plausible explanation for how and why they were cheated and ripped off? "Please, Absolute Poker, please tell me you haven't been cheating me all this time when I had such trust in your company!" COME ON PEOPLE! We WERE naive! My husband has been telling me for months these people are sitting down there in Costa Rica or where ever the hell they are seeing our hole cards cheating in these tournaments and winning the big prizes. I told him he was nuts! Why? Because I told him they wouldn't risk the ruin of their company because eventually someone would get wind of it and it would be ALL OVER the 2+2 forums. They would never get away with it. That would be the end of the company. He just told me I was very naive. Well, he was right and I was naive, but 2+2 DID get wind of it and it is all over the forums now, and this is the best we can do!? The evidence everyone has already gotten isn't enough? We want to HELP the cheaters and thieves to go forward and become a better company? Let's kiss and make up? WTF? If you found your girlfriend in bed with another guy would you be fishing around for explanations? Would you be naive enough to hope against hope there was some plausible explanation? Would you want to help her become a better girlfriend in the future? Does everyone so not want to believe that they were naive enough to be cheated and stolen from by a company they trusted, that getting money returned and helping the company become a better company is more important than accepting the fact that WE'VE ALL BEEN HAD by Absolute Poker and we should be helping to bring the company down!!! THIS SUCKS! 
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#2
10-24-2007, 11:54 AM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
To all you naysayers coming out of the woodwork....
There is absolutely no downside to Nat and/or others visiting AP's offices. Short of them locking Nat into a room and brainwashing him so he comes back spewing "Absolute is innocent", where's the harm in this visit? If Nat can see first hand how many employees they have, how secure the operation is, what their security staff have to say, etc... where's the harm? As far as taking Absolute down, it ain't gonna happen. The best we can hope for is that they take what happened seriously enough to fix the holes in their system, pay back the victims and make every effort to be as transparent as possible in the future. Absolute will suffer, their cash flow will take a big hit from this. Expecting any more is naive and unrealistic. I agree that AP should go down in flames. I agree that this scam probably reaches to the very top of AP's foodchain. But, proving this and bringing them to justice will likely never happen. History has shown that big companies rarely die in the face of scandal. Companies like Absolute who operate under veils of secrecy and dummy corporations in an unregulated industry like ours are very difficult to get to. If they're willing to allow Nat into their private offices, I say go for it!
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#3
10-24-2007, 12:39 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
[ QUOTE ]
To all you naysayers coming out of the woodwork.... There is absolutely no downside to Nat and/or others visiting AP's offices. Short of them locking Nat into a room and brainwashing him so he comes back spewing "Absolute is innocent", where's the harm in this visit? If Nat can see first hand how many employees they have, how secure the operation is, what their security staff have to say, etc... where's the harm? As far as taking Absolute down, it ain't gonna happen. The best we can hope for is that they take what happened seriously enough to fix the holes in their system, pay back the victims and make every effort to be as transparent as possible in the future. Absolute will suffer, their cash flow will take a big hit from this. Expecting any more is naive and unrealistic. I agree that AP should go down in flames. I agree that this scam probably reaches to the very top of AP's foodchain. But, proving this and bringing them to justice will likely never happen. History has shown that big companies rarely die in the face of scandal. Companies like Absolute who operate under veils of secrecy and dummy corporations in an unregulated industry like ours are very difficult to get to. If they're willing to allow Nat into their private offices, I say go for it! [/ QUOTE ] Not sure which avenue is best to take since adanthar et all haven't shared all the inside info yet, but if putting Absolute out of business would be best for poker, then go for it - don't sit there and say "history shows blah blah, its too difficult, yada yada" That's weaksauce man. It most certainly can be done. It isn't like Absolute has a monopoly on poker or anything.
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#4
10-24-2007, 12:53 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] To all you naysayers coming out of the woodwork.... There is absolutely no downside to Nat and/or others visiting AP's offices. Short of them locking Nat into a room and brainwashing him so he comes back spewing "Absolute is innocent", where's the harm in this visit? If Nat can see first hand how many employees they have, how secure the operation is, what their security staff have to say, etc... where's the harm? As far as taking Absolute down, it ain't gonna happen. The best we can hope for is that they take what happened seriously enough to fix the holes in their system, pay back the victims and make every effort to be as transparent as possible in the future. Absolute will suffer, their cash flow will take a big hit from this. Expecting any more is naive and unrealistic. I agree that AP should go down in flames. I agree that this scam probably reaches to the very top of AP's foodchain. But, proving this and bringing them to justice will likely never happen. History has shown that big companies rarely die in the face of scandal. Companies like Absolute who operate under veils of secrecy and dummy corporations in an unregulated industry like ours are very difficult to get to. If they're willing to allow Nat into their private offices, I say go for it! [/ QUOTE ] Not sure which avenue is best to take since adanthar et all haven't shared all the inside info yet, but if putting Absolute out of business would be best for poker, then go for it - don't sit there and say "history shows blah blah, its too difficult, yada yada" That's weaksauce man. It most certainly can be done. It isn't like Absolute has a monopoly on poker or anything. [/ QUOTE ] Weaksauce? LOL! How much have you done to "put Absolute out of business"?
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#5
10-24-2007, 01:15 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] To all you naysayers coming out of the woodwork.... There is absolutely no downside to Nat and/or others visiting AP's offices. Short of them locking Nat into a room and brainwashing him so he comes back spewing "Absolute is innocent", where's the harm in this visit? If Nat can see first hand how many employees they have, how secure the operation is, what their security staff have to say, etc... where's the harm? As far as taking Absolute down, it ain't gonna happen. The best we can hope for is that they take what happened seriously enough to fix the holes in their system, pay back the victims and make every effort to be as transparent as possible in the future. Absolute will suffer, their cash flow will take a big hit from this. Expecting any more is naive and unrealistic. I agree that AP should go down in flames. I agree that this scam probably reaches to the very top of AP's foodchain. But, proving this and bringing them to justice will likely never happen. History has shown that big companies rarely die in the face of scandal. Companies like Absolute who operate under veils of secrecy and dummy corporations in an unregulated industry like ours are very difficult to get to. If they're willing to allow Nat into their private offices, I say go for it! [/ QUOTE ] Not sure which avenue is best to take since adanthar et all haven't shared all the inside info yet, but if putting Absolute out of business would be best for poker, then go for it - don't sit there and say "history shows blah blah, its too difficult, yada yada" That's weaksauce man. It most certainly can be done. It isn't like Absolute has a monopoly on poker or anything. [/ QUOTE ] Weaksauce? LOL! How much have you done to "put Absolute out of business"? [/ QUOTE ] I don't conduct business with them. If everyone else followed suit, they'd be out of business. Is this concept too hard for you to grasp?
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#6
10-24-2007, 01:25 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
Any updates?
p.s. Anyone thinking it's NOT a good idea for Nat to go is really, really dumb. As has been said a hundred times, we're NEVER going to get a perfect rock-solid 100%-transparent audit -- heck, even if we got a big-4 acct firm to go, there'd be people screaming that they don't know poker well enough to ask the right questions. Considering where we are with this situation, what options are on the table for us, and just how far we've come, I'll put my trust in any combination of Nat/Adanthar/Snaggle, thank you very much. Nat, please re-consider your apparent decision not to go -- those of us with an ounce of common sense are all on your side here.
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#7
10-24-2007, 01:45 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
[ QUOTE ]
Any updates? p.s. Anyone thinking it's NOT a good idea for Nat to go is really, really dumb. As has been said a hundred times, we're NEVER going to get a perfect rock-solid 100%-transparent audit [/ QUOTE ] It's not about that though. Nat going is marginally better than Nat not going. But since AP are offering to have someone look over their system, AND pay, why send someone who doesn't have a clue about the things that will really matter (by his own admission). I'm sure AP is professionally run, and that the offices/staff are really quite good. I'm sure their systems and security are fine too. There's too much money and too many investors involved for it not to be. The thing that needs to be discovered is whether current management are on the up and up, and the extent of the cheating. Nat is pretty much unqualified to determine the first and blocked from discovering the second. Anyone who buys the "under audit" reason hasn't been around too long. I have a feeling AP is buying time to blow this thing off, as well as impress Nat with their operation. If he goes, I have no doubt they'll succeed at both. AP knows they need to "come clean" to the community to take some of the heat off, and inviting a 25yo with little experience of crooks, is a way of doing that without actually revealing anything. To the guy who makes $300+ an hour, and who said $5000 + expenses isn't fair compensation, that's equivalent to 250K/year. That covers something like 95% of professional salaries. If Nat's time is worth far more than that, and it's such an imposition, then perhaps he should ask AP to invite someone else. Taking a large payment, with talk of non disclosure agreements, is pretty much f'ed up IMO. A poster above summed it up pretty well: [ QUOTE ] AP could come clean with an open letter to the poker community explaining everything that they know about the situation, including names of the cheaters, how it happened, what they are doing to fix the problem, etc., and then invite an entire independent group from the poker community to come down to verify the accuracy of what AP is representing. AP is not doing that. Instead, they appear to have invited an admitted "25 year old kid", who also happens to have technical knowledge and been instrumental in uncovering the cheating at AP, down for a "feel good" visit to their offices in Costa Rica. This is a PR move by AP, nothing more. [/ QUOTE ]
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#8
10-24-2007, 02:27 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
[ QUOTE ]
p.s. Anyone thinking it's NOT a good idea for Nat to go is really, really dumb. [/ QUOTE ] Not entirely. I don't think he should go, but it has nothing to do with the purpose of the visit, either from his or AP's perspective.... it has to do with how a completely different agency, ie the DOJ, is going to view him when he goes into an offshore illegal operation, recieves compensation for "services", and then sets foot back on US soil. Unless he gets some really solid legal advice and possibly some guarenteed assurances otherwise, I'd say he shouldn't go.
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#10
10-24-2007, 01:41 PM
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Re: AP Visit: I\'m going to Costa Rica
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I don't conduct business with them. If everyone else followed suit, they'd be out of business. Is this concept too hard for you to grasp? [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] do you have some magical way of making this happen? just look at the site right now and tell me if you think this can ACTUALLY happen.
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