NL noob trying to iron out basic betting stategy

[DarkForceRising]

Hey SSNL gang,

I hope that I will not bring down the otherwise excellent discussion down too much with these general questions. I am another disguntled limit player making the transition. I have been experimenting with NL50 and NL100 (two tables max-full ring) with reasonable success.

In an attempt to convert my limit TAG/LAGTAG strategy, I was hoping for some general guidelines to make the appropriate tweakage. For the sake of simplicity, suspend dis-belief [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] and assume that I am familiar with board texture, number of opponents etc...

1. What is the standard pre-flop raise with the big pp's? 4x Big Blind? How much extra per additionl limper? What about JJ, 10 10, AK, AK &AQs? I have, thus far, been adding an additional Big Blind per limper.

2. What is the standard flop c-bet amount aginst 1 or 2 opponents? In and out of position? I realize this depends on a lot of factors so, for the sake of brevity, assume dry board/typical opponents. So far, I have been betting 3/4 pot.

3. How about standard c-bet amounts for the turn and river? In and out of position with no significant scare cards? I have been betting 3/4 to full pot- checking behind UI on river when in position.

4. When we have a hand such as QJ suited or 99, coupled with good position, are we putting in a small value raise after multiple limpers? Or is it better to just see the flop cheaply so as to not tempt a pre-flop limp re-raise?

TIA

[4_2_it]

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1. What is the standard pre-flop raise with the big pp's? 4x Big Blind? How much extra per additionl limper? What about JJ, 10 10, AK, AK &AQs? I have, thus far, been adding an additional Big Blind per limper.

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Standard is 4xBB plus 1BB per limper. Some tables you can make it 5bb and others need to be 3bb to get a caller. I raise (and usually reraise in position) the hands you listed. I play 6-max.

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2. What is the standard flop c-bet amount against 1 or 2 opponents? In and out of position? I realize this depends on a lot of factors so, for the sake of brevity, assume dry board/typical opponents. So far, I have been betting 3/4 pot.

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Standard is anywhere between 1/2 and full pot. My c-bets are usually either 3/4 or full pot. Again, table conditions, yada yada.

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3. How about standard c-bet amounts for the turn and river? In and out of position with no significant scare cards? I have been betting 3/4 to full pot- checking behind UI on river when in position.

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Sounds fine. Though, with the vast majority of players at these levels being passive calling stations, you really shouldn't ALWAYS fire a second barrel unimproved.

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4. When we have a hand such as QJ suited or 99, coupled with good position, are we putting in a small value raise after multiple limpers? Or is it better to just see the flop cheaply so as to not tempt a pre-flop limp re-raise?

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In position I'm always raising 88+. I probably limp QJs on the button 75% and raise it 25%. Again, table conditions, yada yada.

[beavens]

yeah, thanks for leaving some room for us other people to answer!

(4_2 just unknowingly saved you from hearing my bad advice [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] )

[thedustbustr]

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4. When we have a hand such as QJ suited or 99, coupled with good position, are we putting in a small value raise after multiple limpers? Or is it better to just see the flop cheaply so as to not tempt a pre-flop limp re-raise?

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I raise em 100% of the time, and it isn't a small value raise, it's a pot sized raise (roughly 3.5bb+1bb/limper). the cards aren't nearly as important as the position. my primary goal is to take it down preflop or on the flop, but position gives you a lot of wiggle room postflop. 99 is good for a nice pot unimproved sometimes, and sets are huge in NL. similarly, QJs does have pair value when played carefully, and you can play a huge pot when you flop a flushdraw with a pair or gutshot or something.

in my experience, with a hand like QJs especially, you want to be the aggressor, so you can play your draws fast, and you can know when you need to lay down top pair no kicker.

[DarkForceRising]

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4. When we have a hand such as QJ suited or 99, coupled with good position, are we putting in a small value raise after multiple limpers? Or is it better to just see the flop cheaply so as to not tempt a pre-flop limp re-raise?

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I raise em 100% of the time, and it isn't a small value raise, it's a pot sized raise (roughly 3.5bb+1bb/limper). the cards aren't nearly as important as the position. my primary goal is to take it down preflop or on the flop, but position gives you a lot of wiggle room postflop. 99 is good for a nice pot unimproved sometimes, and sets are huge in NL. similarly, QJs does have pair value when played carefully, and you can play a huge pot when you flop a flushdraw with a pair or gutshot or something.

in my experience, with a hand like QJs especially, you want to be the aggressor, so you can play your draws fast, and you can know when you need to lay down top pair no kicker.

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Justification for a little lagging in up. Just what I was looking for... [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[c_strong]

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When we have a hand such as QJ suited or 99, coupled with good position, are we putting in a small value raise after multiple limpers? Or is it better to just see the flop cheaply so as to not tempt a pre-flop limp re-raise?


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I agree with 4_2_it on this - just wanted to add that the LRR is very very rare at SSNL in my experience.

[Check_The_Nuts]

what type of situation would you use a 1/2 pot c-bet? never?

[thedustbustr]

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Justification for a little lagging in up. Just what I was looking for...

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lol raising QJs on the button isn't anywhere close to lagging it up, it's standard tag

[BukNaked36]

Standard bet sizes for me:
preflop - 4xBB + .5BB per limper
flop - 3/4 to full pot
turn - 2/3 to 3/4 pot
river - 1/2 to 2/3 pot

I think these sizes are good for making draws pay while still keeping the pot at a reasonable size.

[4_2_it]

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what type of situation would you use a 1/2 pot c-bet? never?

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If villain is a short stack and I flop a made hand I think betting 1/2 pot on the flop and the rest (assuming less than pot) on the turn is a good way to get villain committed to a hand.

We had a discussion about c-bets not long along. Grunch uses the bet pot button while most others were at 3/4 pot. I alternate between 3/4 and full pot depending on the table. I do not vary my c-bet based upon hand strength unless I encounter a situation like the one described above.