AK v two donks Line check please

Turlock · #1 10-30-2007, 04:00 PM

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.25/$0.5
10 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero raises, 4 folds, CO 3-bets, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (12.4SB, 4 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, CO raises, Button folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls, CO caps, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (12.2BB, 3 players)
BB bets, Hero folds, CO calls all-in $0.15.
Uncalled bets: 0.7BB returned to BB.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (12.8BB, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: 12.8BB)

Results:
Final pot: 12.8BB

Both players were terrible calling raises with 82 and the like.Once I'd already called one flop bet I felt priced in to see the turn,does anyone think I should I should have ignored my read and let it go earlier?

RemyXO · #2 10-30-2007, 04:05 PM

(1) Why didn't you cap preflop??
(2) I am fine with the first call on the flop, but when it's two bets back to you, it's time to let it go. You may certainly be dominated by CO's hand and BB is saying he's beating an overpair ... although the pot is large, the action is not very good to continue drawing to overs.
(3) If you read BB for a donkey and CO for a stackofftiltmonkey, then the turn card really doesn't change anything. Since you called all those bets on the flop, you are now well priced to call one bet on the turn ... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

kbdunn · #3 10-30-2007, 04:10 PM

Since the CO is shortstacked, capping PF is not bad, you may have him dominated unless hes been waiting orbit after orbit to go in with a high pair.

If you are going to commit yourself to call two cold on the flop, believing your two overcards are clean, I would never fold the turn since you are getting solid odds.

You say the BB is a tard so he can easily be overplaying a pair + BDSD, 8x, or be strong and have a legimate hand such as 99 or 1010. The turn didnt change much, so if you thought you were on a clean draw on the flop, you are still on a clean draw on the turn.

RemyXO · #4 10-30-2007, 04:18 PM

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Since the CO is shortstacked, capping PF is not bad, you may have him dominated unless hes been waiting orbit after orbit to go in with a high pair.

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WTF. Who cares if he's shortshacked or not. By not capping preflop with a premium hand like AK you are losing value. Period.

kbdunn · #5 10-30-2007, 05:03 PM

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WTF. Who cares if he's shortshacked or not. By not capping preflop with a premium hand like AK you are losing value. Period.

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Against tards who have a wide 3 betting range or are shortstacked, yes I see the value in capping AKo PF. And this guy is a tard.

But do you cap PF everytime a villain 3 bets?

Many villains have a solid 3 betting range of 10s+/AK, where capping against a solid 3 bettor is marginal a lot of the time or -EV, depending who else is in the hand, if I remember my stoving experience. If the villain has a looser 3 betting range of AJs/AQs+ then yes I can see capping every time

bellatrix · #6 10-30-2007, 05:45 PM

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But do you cap PF everytime a villain 3 bets?

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Unless I have some sort of note or read, yes!

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Many villains have a solid 3 betting range of 10s+/AK,

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... and many do not. And this is not a "solid" range. 3-betting with AJs or 99 is a good play more often than not.

tiltaholic · #7 10-30-2007, 08:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.25/$0.5
10 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero raises, 4 folds, CO 3-bets, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (12.4SB, 4 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, CO raises, Button folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls, CO caps, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (12.2BB, 3 players)
BB bets, Hero folds, CO calls all-in $0.15.
Uncalled bets: 0.7BB returned to BB.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (12.8BB, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: 12.8BB)

Results:
Final pot: 12.8BB

Both players were terrible calling raises with 82 and the like.Once I'd already called one flop bet I felt priced in to see the turn,does anyone think I should I should have ignored my read and let it go earlier?

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cap pf, and if your read on BB is correct, then you likely have enough outs to call the turn bet.

Blzdwrath · #8 10-30-2007, 10:38 PM

I believe capping pre-flop with AK has a lot to do with implied odds when your TPTK holds up and weaker pairs/kickers pay you off.

londomollari · #9 10-31-2007, 01:31 AM

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I believe capping pre-flop with AK has a lot to do with implied odds when your TPTK holds up and weaker pairs/kickers pay you off.

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Your implied odds are lowered by capping preflop. You cap preflop because you've got a decent equity edge against your opponents ranges.
Here I'd prefer to call because you have great relative position and our equity edge isn't going to be huge unless CO is a maniac. I think we can make up for .1bb-.2bb of lost ev by check-raising the field of favourable flops.

maverickai · #10 10-31-2007, 02:06 AM

grunch... I would not call the 2 bets to me on the flop. You mentioned they habitually called raises with lousy cards. But on the flop, both are showing too much aggression for comfort.

And yes, given they are so loose, capping on flop would be good for value.