200NL: KK in Blind v. Blind vs Solid... - Page 3

danicalifornia · #21 09-26-2007, 05:00 AM

I mean if u check the flop you have to call the river. I kinda like ur line as you extract good value from TT-QQ and he could even be bluffing with overs. Against typical opponents I would bet the flop tho.

SirFelixCat · #22 09-26-2007, 05:00 AM

No, never said I'd fold, just thinking out loud my thought process is all.

And again, raising the river is HORRIBLE. I'm a TAG/NIT. I'm not 3betting light in BvB often. Therefore I'm saying I have a hand. He also is a TAG and he calls. WTF does he put me on here that he can call the river push?

Maybe I can raise the turn, but if I get b/3b, can I really like it?!?

Fonkey123 · #23 09-26-2007, 05:01 AM

You need to IM goofy imo. He'll set you straight.

SirFelixCat · #24 09-26-2007, 05:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I mean if u check the flop you have to call the river. I kinda like ur line as you extract good value from TT-QQ and he could even be bluffing with overs. Against typical opponents I would bet the flop tho.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, I agree 100%. The point is that I'm not afraid of too many free cards here, so I thought that this extracts the most from missed overs etc. Am I really gonna get 3 streets of value from a TAG here, given my image as well? Small chance imo.

Now, if this guys you're typical monkey, bet your ass I'm looking at getting it in here, sure. But he's not. THAT'S the issue I'm sticking to here......

aislephive · #25 09-26-2007, 05:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
No, never said I'd fold, just thinking out loud my thought process is all.

And again, raising the river is HORRIBLE. I'm a TAG/NIT. I'm not 3betting light in BvB often. Therefore I'm saying I have a hand. He also is a TAG and he calls. WTF does he put me on here that he can call the river push?

Maybe I can raise the turn, but if I get b/3b, can I really like it?!?

[/ QUOTE ]

If villain can read hands and is capable of making big calls if he thinks he is good then he will think your line represents no hand and therefore call with far less than KK.

SirFelixCat · #26 09-26-2007, 05:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No, never said I'd fold, just thinking out loud my thought process is all.

And again, raising the river is HORRIBLE. I'm a TAG/NIT. I'm not 3betting light in BvB often. Therefore I'm saying I have a hand. He also is a TAG and he calls. WTF does he put me on here that he can call the river push?

Maybe I can raise the turn, but if I get b/3b, can I really like it?!?

[/ QUOTE ]

If villain can read hands and is capable of making big calls if he thinks he is good then he will think your line represents no hand and therefore call with far less than KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough. Now granted, my default is to bet the flop, obviously. I thought, though, that this maximizes value from weaker hands. C'est la vie.

Villain had 99 and MHING, but I think that's moot, really. Just trying to think outside the box and taking image, stack size, value, and deception all into play. I guess I I'm just a weak/tight nit. :shrug:

SinkRox · #27 09-26-2007, 05:19 AM

OP if you want ppl to consider your nitty image then note your stats with the hh.

As played riv is an easy call and I'm super happy with it. Your hands looking v meadium strength, alot like TT, TJ.

SirFelixCat · #28 09-26-2007, 05:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
OP if you want ppl to consider your nitty image then note your stats with the hh.

As played riv is an easy call and I'm super happy with it. Your hands looking v meadium strength, alot like TT, TJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just figured it was well known by now, but fair enough. I seriously doubt that matters to most here anyway though... :shrug:

pineapple888 · #29 09-26-2007, 12:30 PM

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if people flop sets on me, they are allowed to stack me in 3 bet pots, its like a rule. The fact is, even if you are a nit, people do take shots, this is a battle in the blinds and you have KANGZ [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Your thought process is not bad, don't get me wrong, but your thought process is also flawed in that your playing this with almost scared money simply because you are 200 BBs deep. The only hands your getting value from are NOT TT-QQ on the flop. Try more like Any pair, any draw, some random hands that decide to float oop. Your losing to basically 5 hands(AA/98/66/99/88). Your saying this is a well ahead/WB situation. Its not, at all. The board is 986 man, he has plenty of draws that have decent equity, TJ is a very real draw he could have, etc.

One thing though, if your NOT willing to play for stacks, then the flop check makes far more sense. As for raising the river, 2 blanks fall off, your hand looks very marginal, a river raise here is obv a lil thin, but its perfect. He's not just calling with QQ, if that was so, you should be shoving every hand in your range at that point(even including hands that have QQ beat). He very well could have 97 and be like, wtf, your TJ missed and call. Do not underestimate how badly people want to outplay, outcall, and outclass each other at the poker table

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Well said.

[rant]Especially the part about "scared money". I see this fairly often on this forum for some reason. "ZOMG YOU HAS 150BB, FIND A BETTER SPOT!!1!!1!!!" Well that's silly in cash games, the only spot that matters is the one you are in, and if you just give away money in a clear +EV situation (even if it's fairly thin), that's gonna really hurt your win rate. I mean, 50.1% after correcting for pot odds, fine, control variance, but with a small but clear edge be ready to get the cabbage in the middle. Go short-stack or something if you are not willing to jam the money in even when you get above 150BB. [/rant]

Here I don't even think it's thin. I bet this flop 100% of the time, and I'm willing to get the $$ in at any point, and I'm a TAG.

primate · #30 09-26-2007, 12:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
if people flop sets on me, they are allowed to stack me in 3 bet pots, its like a rule. The fact is, even if you are a nit, people do take shots, this is a battle in the blinds and you have KANGZ

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you like look at Hero and Villain stack sizes? Although this is a 3bet pot villain is getting implied odds to call with any reasonable pocket pair here.

Two important factors are at play:
1. What is villains Att to Steal % and
2. Has he done this from the SB before (is he aware of how important position is)? What history is there between the two of you?
We know villain is a TAG and a thinking player. With these size of stacks he IS NOT going to stack off with a marginal hand because its a "Blind Battle" lol.