Stupid preflop decision vs DeathDonkey - Page 4

baronzeus · #31 07-02-2007, 09:31 AM

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ppl in general call here too often imo. I fold this and 98s in the situation described.

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yeah, 97s is a pretty straightforward fold. 98s is tougher but i think its a bit more playable since you can raise out SB a lot of the time on the flop. either way i dotn like playing it

PokerBob · #32 07-02-2007, 09:59 AM

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Position here helps a lot. Easy fold for 2-more from the BB, but from the button with a slightly larger pot you have to call. Capping has merits too IMO, but I think I prefer seeing if SB caps it himself so I know where I'm at.

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SB tried to tell you where you were at the first time around.

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Stop it. Joe said the person was passive. Not super duper passive or never ever ever ever raises passive. Dude is sitting in a 4-handed 50-100 limit holdem game. That alone should tell you that he's not the nittiest dude on the block. Even Passive Guy has more than JJ-AA, AK here.

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Ah, no. I game select very well, thanks. I found this game and didn't even answer the phone when DD called me it was so good. He had to find me in it, then this hand happened. The SB calls with many hands here, 99, A6o, T8o, QTo, but 3-bets premium. I was sure of it.

When this was 2 bets back to me, I thought, "20% cold equity, 22% at best".

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well, given all of this, it is clearly a fold.

Clarkmeister · #33 07-02-2007, 11:20 AM

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Position here helps a lot. Easy fold for 2-more from the BB, but from the button with a slightly larger pot you have to call. Capping has merits too IMO, but I think I prefer seeing if SB caps it himself so I know where I'm at.

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SB tried to tell you where you were at the first time around.

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Stop it. Joe said the person was passive. Not super duper passive or never ever ever ever raises passive. Dude is sitting in a 4-handed 50-100 limit holdem game. That alone should tell you that he's not the nittiest dude on the block. Even Passive Guy has more than JJ-AA, AK here.

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Ah, no. I game select very well, thanks. I found this game and didn't even answer the phone when DD called me it was so good. He had to find me in it, then this hand happened. The SB calls with many hands here, 99, A6o, T8o, QTo, but 3-bets premium. I was sure of it.

When this was 2 bets back to me, I thought, "20% cold equity, 22% at best".

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If you say so, but I find it really tough to believe. I assume you saw him just call with 99. Big dif obv between 99 and the other hands you listed.

Even so, you're getting 4-1 even if he caps and you have position and play better than him postflop and DD is trapped in the middle which is also good. I'm still calling.

baronzeus · #34 07-02-2007, 11:26 AM

in the end it comes down to your ability to lay down hands. if the flop comes 9 high and he bet-3bets you on the flop, you should be able to lay down on the river. if you cant then just fold. the extra bets people pay in this situation are unbearbly high

PokerBob · #35 07-02-2007, 11:51 AM

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Position here helps a lot. Easy fold for 2-more from the BB, but from the button with a slightly larger pot you have to call. Capping has merits too IMO, but I think I prefer seeing if SB caps it himself so I know where I'm at.

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SB tried to tell you where you were at the first time around.

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Stop it. Joe said the person was passive. Not super duper passive or never ever ever ever raises passive. Dude is sitting in a 4-handed 50-100 limit holdem game. That alone should tell you that he's not the nittiest dude on the block. Even Passive Guy has more than JJ-AA, AK here.

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Ah, no. I game select very well, thanks. I found this game and didn't even answer the phone when DD called me it was so good. He had to find me in it, then this hand happened. The SB calls with many hands here, 99, A6o, T8o, QTo, but 3-bets premium. I was sure of it.

When this was 2 bets back to me, I thought, "20% cold equity, 22% at best".

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If you say so, but I find it really tough to believe. I assume you saw him just call with 99. Big dif obv between 99 and the other hands you listed.

Even so, you're getting 4-1 even if he caps and you have position and play better than him postflop and DD is trapped in the middle which is also good. I'm still calling.

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but DD should not be 'trapped' here, in that he should be aware of SBs tendencies, and thus his 4bet should be a real hand that is more than happy to have joe in there with his 9-high.

Clarkmeister · #36 07-02-2007, 11:57 AM

Great. If we have to beat one overpair, what's the difference if it's two.

And DD is plenty capable of knowing Joe will make folds in this spot, gaining him the position and 1BB of dead money in the pot.

Entity · #37 07-03-2007, 09:59 AM

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Great. If we have to beat one overpair, what's the difference if it's two.

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With a hand like 44, that's definitely true. With 97s it seems that you flop too many mediocre hands that will still have suckout equity but are going to be put in a tough spot when you're behind two overpairs because of the relative difficult to escape flop/turn unscathed. While this helps your implied odds somewhat it's not like you're going to be a huge favorite to get lots of bets in when ahead, given how infrequently you'll flop a super-strong hand equitywise. I think if the other player is more guaranteed to be more passive postflop here in the SB if you call, then you can get away with a call pretty easily. I call here online all the time but with a 5-bet cap preflop + the relative likelihood that you will be facing multiple bets on the flop, I think I'd find a muck here.

Rob

mike l. · #38 07-03-2007, 05:09 PM

i spoke with gabe about this hand for awhile last night, and he said he felt the best play was definitely raise. he thought all 3 options were pretty close but it goes cap, call, fold.

it's telling that the live players (gabe, me, death donkey, and clarkmeister) all favor not folding and the primarily online players favor folding. actually not sure i should include dd as live player, but i think he's a really good live player.

newhizzle · #39 07-03-2007, 05:14 PM

only reason i might fold is cuz deathdonkey runs really good, other wise id call for sure, i once raised pocket 7s and folded for one more bet to his 79s(that he 3-bet my EMP raise with btw, for anyone actually considering folding here) and felt pretty good about it, especially he showed his cards confirming my expert laydown

ragazzobello · #40 07-03-2007, 05:56 PM

I think the decision is so close that it merits metagame considerations. If the fish and DD notice that you're folding in the face of this kind of action, then you could be inviting the fish to play back at you even more, which would be a total disaster in a short game where he is playing passively to begin with. You also could be inviting DD to start liberally trying to raise you out of the pot preflop and isolate the fish which would force you into some tougher preflop decisions.

Calling has too many positives for it to be a clear mistake. 1) you have a protected pot v. DD 2) you have the button 3)you're highly unlikely to be dominated 4) you're hand is relatively disguised and you will likley get paid off if you make two pair of better. 5) you could easily be up against two hands that have overlapping overcards and scoop a 9 or 7 high board. 6)you're suited in a multiway pot