An every day situation with a draw on the turn facing a block bet....

[HoldEmNewby]

Villain seems loose. His weak turn lead seems to show weakness more than strength; should I raise the turn to $30 and 3 barrel the river if i miss? The alternate line is just calling, but do i have any fold equity on the river then? The fact that I'm coming in from a stealing position should make me less willing to take the aggressive approach?

Party Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

UTG: $166.36
MP: $112.63
CO: $53.24
Hero (BTN): $98.50
SB: $58.78
BB: $117.34

Pre-Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
3 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $4</font>, SB calls $3.50, BB folds

Flop: ($9) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $8.50</font>, SB calls $8.50

Turn: ($26) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $9.11</font>, <font color="blue">Hero contemplates a raise....</font>

[kaby]

raise it up because he's week like you said, i don't think shoving the river when you get called by a loose/pbb stationish player is +ev though ...

[HoldEmNewby]

so if i'm called on the turn I'm folding the river unless I hit my spade draw?

[pineapple888]

I call cause I stack him for cheep if he has spades and we hit, and if not, I can just decide what to do on the river.

Edit: and if he has an A he's hardly ever folding anyway.

[sh58]

definitely raise the turn. whether to fire the river if you miss is a different matter, it's hard to say w/o playing with the villain, generally i will give up if i miss

[kaby]

not a lot of draws for him to call with, you beat most draws anyway so you can check behind (yeah he'll river a pair like 15% of the time, doesn't matter enough imho), and i don't think trying to get a loose unkown to lay down top pair when he called your turn raise is +ev

so yeah, fold when called and we don't hit vs a loose unknown

[HoldEmNewby]

[ QUOTE ]
I call cause I stack him for cheep if he has spades and we hit, and if not, I can just decide what to do on the river.

Edit: and if he has an A he's hardly ever folding anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mr. Pineapple,

How are you going to stack this villain cheaply? If he has a worse flush draw he's calling our raise and we're getting his stack regardless when the flush hits; but if he is weak on the turn he is not going to commit a lot of chips on the river if the flush card hits. Are you taking his turn bet as a sign of strength?

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I call cause I stack him for cheep if he has spades and we hit, and if not, I can just decide what to do on the river.

Edit: and if he has an A he's hardly ever folding anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mr. Pineapple,

How are you going to stack this villain cheaply? If he has a worse flush draw he's calling our raise and we're getting his stack regardless when the flush hits; but if he is weak on the turn he is not going to commit a lot of chips on the river if the flush card hits. Are you taking his turn bet as a sign of strength?

[/ QUOTE ]

1.) If it's a blocking bet for a spade draw, obviously you get his stack when you hit. Edit: and the last thing you want to do is blow him out of the pot
2.) If it's a gaybet for value, he's hardly ever gonna put you on spades, and there's enough money in the middle that you often get his stack.
3.) If it's just something stupid, well like I said you can always decide what to do on the river

Just seems like good risk/reward to simply call here vs. a typical loose retard, when from what everyone else is saying, you just have to give up on a blank river after putting a bunch of money in when you are called.

[kaby]

yeah but when you start raising in this spot you'll see villains like this making bets like this here fold a lot ... i think raising here is +ev with atc tbh *edit for your edit, loose unknowns at nl100 that make bets like this don't fold spade draws here imho*

If it's a gaybet for value, he's hardly ever gonna put you on spades, and there's enough money in the middle that you often get his stack.

villain has A7o, is scared of the flush and checks the river ... we bet 4/5e pot he calls ... how is this getting his stack? btw why wouldn't he put us on spades?
+ loose villains generally freeze up when the flush hits regardless of the way we played our hand

[BCage]

Why would you raise this turn? That makes no sense at all. He's not laying down a hand that beats you. He is giving you great odds to draw so just take them.

If he checks a blank river to you I'm betting out, if he bets a blank river I fold. If we hit a flush I bet or raise pot.