AC scenario!!!

[BCPVP]

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Let's try this, glue brain:

Q: What's the point of Mike's Security Firm?
A: To provide safety and/or justice in a manner people think is fair.

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Probably to make money.

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And how pray tell do they go about making money?

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Not necessarily by "providing safety and/or justice in a manner people think is fair", I can tell you that much. Seriously they could make money in any number of ways. If you can't think of any besides that then you are lacking in imagination.

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"Make money" is not really correct. It's not just about making money, it's about maximizing profit. Mike's Security Firm is probably not set up to maximize profits in a way other than providing security.

[foal]

"Or if this is the vat of glue's way of letting a point go, then I guess let it go without insultingly dismissing the argument." -ALawPoker

"I'm done dignifying nonsense like this with a response. Have a good one." -ALawPoker

Got to love people who practice what they preach. And in record time too.

[BCPVP]

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Then can you explain how the state prevents the mafia from self-destructing as you claim unjust business is supposed to?

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The state provides them several black markets to fund their violent activities. How's Al Capone's gang doing now that Prohibition was repealed?

[foal]

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Then can you explain how the state prevents the mafia from self-destructing as you claim unjust business is supposed to?

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The state provides them several black markets to fund their violent activities. How's Al Capone's gang doing now that Prohibition was repealed?

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I saw that coming, but I already pointed out that the mafia does not merely operate in black markets.

[ALawPoker]

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"Or if this is the vat of glue's way of letting a point go, then I guess let it go without insultingly dismissing the argument." -ALawPoker

"I'm done dignifying nonsense like this with a response. Have a good one." -ALawPoker

Got to love people who practice what they preach. And in record time too.

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What is your problem?

The difference is that I did not dismiss your arguments without explaining myself. I responded to them, and then (yes, brashly) told you I would not be responding further. That is very different than what I called you out on, which was insult an argument but not bother to explain any of your thoughts.

I have no problem with being insulting when you think someone is not making sense (obviously I do it to you all the time, and would have to have the mentality of a 6-year-old to complain about someone else doing it). My problem is when you dismiss an argument but don't include your reasoning with it.

I am only responding in my own words (rather than 80s quotes) to address the implied hypocrisy attack here. Rocky Balboa just wouldn't do it justice, and wouldn't stand for me saying nothing. Please, don't accuse me of being a hypocrite over something that isn't the least bit hypocritical. You can call me rude, condescending, or preachy all you want, and (at least when I'm talking to you) I certainly am. But there was nothing hypocritical about anything here.

[foal]

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I responded to them, and then (yes, brashly) told you I would not be responding further. That is very different than what I called you out on, which was insult an argument but not bother to explain any of your thoughts.

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Your "response" contained about 10 question marks/exclamation marks and a claim that my argument was ridiculous. You basically refused to address my example, because it was "operating under the state", without explaining in what way state interference invalidates it. I'd call that "insulting an argument without bothering to explain all your thoughts", personally.

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I am only responding in my own words (rather than 80s quotes) to address the implied hypocrisy attack here.

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[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Your 80s quote pledge didn't last long. I think you're taking me too seriously.

[BCPVP]

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Then can you explain how the state prevents the mafia from self-destructing as you claim unjust business is supposed to?

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The state provides them several black markets to fund their violent activities. How's Al Capone's gang doing now that Prohibition was repealed?

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I saw that coming, but I already pointed out that the mafia does not merely operate in black markets.

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Those other operations wouldn't sustain them at a level any higher than a gang of pickpockets..

[Vagos]

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Pool your money together and start locking up abortion doctors. Or people who slaughter animals. Etc.

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Good thing the state is around to make sure that kind of nonsense doesn't happen! Oh, wait...

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If you think I was saying that jail time for animal abuse is nonsense, then you misread me. I'm saying that everyone using their own standards for deciding who to lock up would be nonsense.

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I'm not sure it would quite work that way. Locking up a horde of random strangers would be incredibly expensive. So it's not really everyone that can decide what to lock people up for, just an elite few. And again, this is no different from a state.

But to be quite frank, if a very rich guy started locking up tons of innocent people in AC land...there could very well be some kind of counter-movement that attempts to bring him to justice, or just flat out assassinate him. Remember, when we're talking about AC we're talking about a society that has dissolved the coercive state as we know it. The people are not going to roll over for the first thug who comes out guns a blazing.

Lastly if you're still not satisfied with what I just said (and I'm guessing you're probably not) just know that I can understand the objection and I don't claim AC is fully immune from these kind of problems. It's the common "What if Bill Gates starts killing hobo's?" objection and while these scenarios are certainly possible, I believe it would be the exception, not the rule. Besides, any kind of wrongdoing that happened in these scenarios would pale in comparison to the destruction and misery that is caused by governments.

[ALawPoker]

You're confused as to the order of replies.

My first response to your mafia thing said this:

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One example of an injustice existing counts as an argument against the idea that over time mistakes will tend to die out?

Odd.

If it was that easy you could also just point to the existence of the US government as the critical kink in my theory.

Yawn.

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The thing with all the exclamation points was later on after (I thought) I had effectively pointed to my obvious objections to your mafia thing.

Why did your example not mean anything to my point? If that wasn't already clear, here's your answer:

A.) Because, like I said in my first reply after you brought it up, it's one example, which you used to claim:

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[my arguments] do not hold up in the real world

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Really, that's what you said in your mafia post.

One example of a "mistake" occurring does not mean the theory that mistakes will tend to die out is invalid. I'm amazed this requires explanation.

And B.) Because they exist in the context of a state who opens up black markets for them by making things illegal!!!

The example, like most any example I've seen you dream up on here, was patently absurd and irrelevant to the point I was making. Accept it. I thought I had made my objections clear before I told you I was done with the topic. If what I was getting at was not clear to you, my apologies, but sometimes I am just confused how your mind actually works since I think the explanation is beyond obvious.

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Your 80s quote pledge didn't last long. I think you're taking me too seriously.

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No, I take you for what you are. I was just worried people reading might not be familiar enough with you to know better, so I wanted to clarify rather than let a hypocrisy charge stand.

80's thing goes back into effect now.

[foal]

tl;dr