How should a society deal with drugs?

[Mr_Moore]

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I think whether you abuse drugs or not you may easily find yourself addicted to them and that's when your problems start.
Of course some may harm or kill you right away.

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Junk food, promiscuous sex, liquor, internet poker, adrenaline sports, internet politics forums are addictive as well. If people KNOW something has a high risk of addiction and CHOOSE to partake in it anyway, why do you think it's your job to use violence to stop them?

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You can't compare sport nor internet politics to drugs.
So you would rather live in a society where drugs existed and where legal and easy to come by? Does anyone benefit from drugs in any way? Why have it around when it only spreads decadency and in worst case death? What are the positive effects of it? are there any?

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It gives people a good feeling, relieves stress and pain. Plus for entertainment purposes.

I mean what's the "benefit" of candy? What's the benefit of beer? I mean what's the benefit of movies? It creates no value in our society, produces nothing tangible, except entertainment.

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I am not talking about marijuana here. Stop comparing it to things that can't instantly kill you if you overdose or severely damage your brains etc.

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He didn't say marijuana.

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I know he didn't, i was simply mentioning the only drug that is not dangerous in the same way. Stop wasting my time Kaj.

[AWoodside]

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I think whether you abuse drugs or not you may easily find yourself addicted to them and that's when your problems start.
Of course some may harm or kill you right away.

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The potential for drugs to harm or kill you right away is drastically overblown and mostly a product of prohibition to boot. Because drug users have no option but to deal with a black market, many of the quality-control mechanisms present in free markets are not there such as a reliable and consistent source, consumer reporting groups, hell even government regulated safety standards if you're into that. Even a drug that is as full-out as heroin can be used responsibly for an entire lifetime as long as it's not abused. Its a lot easier to overdose when you aren't sure how pure the product your using is or what impurities it has. Another example, most times when people get severely screwed up on ecstasy it's because they took pills from a "bad batch". If a large company operating in a free market provided the ecstasy the possibility of it being chemically bad approaches 0. When was the last time you felt uncomfortable taking tylenol because you were afraid the manufacturers executed the chemical extraction wrong?

As for addiction, nobody will deny that some drugs are ridiculously addictive. It's a sad state of affairs that people suffering from a substance abuse problem have severely curtailed resources for getting help because they're criminals in the eyes of society. Not only have you exacerbated the plight of the unfortunate by instituting prohibition, you've restricted the freedoms of responsible drug users everywhere from enjoying something they truly value. There are drug experiences that can be immensely rewarding and constructive for those that approach things responsibly. This should be clear from the fact that countless human cultures have based meditative practices, lifestyles, and entire religions around them. This deep, nuanced, and fascinating aspect of the human experience has been all but cut away by modern society.

I'm pretty much rambling now, but one last thought. The artificially high prices that black markets create compound the problems too. People point to the fact that some junkies steal for their high and this is a reason that drugs should be illegal. It's not uncommon for hookers in a place like Atlantic City to spend between 100 and 200 dollars per day on their fix. If prohibition were ended they could support their habits for no more than it costs to buy a pack of cigarettes a day. Most drugs (there are exceptions, alcohol among others) don't tend to make people a nuisance to society until they are dry and hurting for a fix and starting into a withdrawal phase. There is no reason I or anyone else should ever be robbed, assaulted, or hassled by somebody because they can't afford their next fix, end prohibition and let these people get high in their crappy apartments in between shifts at McDonalds (or even in between receiving their welfare checks, if that's your kind of thing).

[Kaj]

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I think whether you abuse drugs or not you may easily find yourself addicted to them and that's when your problems start.
Of course some may harm or kill you right away.

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The potential for drugs to harm or kill you right away is drastically overblown and mostly a product of prohibition to boot. Because drug users have no option but to deal with a black market, many of the quality-control mechanisms present in free markets are not there such as a reliable and consistent source, consumer reporting groups, hell even government regulated safety standards if you're into that. Even a drug that is as full-out as heroin can be used responsibly for an entire lifetime as long as it's not abused. Its a lot easier to overdose when you aren't sure how pure the product your using is or what impurities it has. Another example, most times when people get severely screwed up on ecstasy it's because they took pills from a "bad batch". If a large company operating in a free market provided the ecstasy the possibility of it being chemically bad approaches 0. When was the last time you felt uncomfortable taking tylenol because you were afraid the manufacturers executed the chemical extraction wrong?

As for addiction, nobody will deny that some drugs are ridiculously addictive. It's a sad state of affairs that people suffering from a substance abuse problem have severely curtailed resources for getting help because they're criminals in the eyes of society. Not only have you exacerbated the plight of the unfortunate by instituting prohibition, you've restricted the freedoms of responsible drug users everywhere from enjoying something they truly value. There are drug experiences that can be immensely rewarding and constructive for those that approach things responsibly. This should be clear from the fact that countless human cultures have based meditative practices, lifestyles, and entire religions around them. This deep, nuanced, and fascinating aspect of the human experience has been all but cut away by modern society.

I'm pretty much rambling now, but one last thought. The artificially high prices that black markets create compound the problems too. People point to the fact that some junkies steal for their high and this is a reason that drugs should be illegal. It's not uncommon for hookers in a place like Atlantic City to spend between 100 and 200 dollars per day on their fix. If prohibition were ended they could support their habits for no more than it costs to buy a pack of cigarettes a day. Most drugs (there are exceptions, alcohol among others) don't tend to make people a nuisance to society until they are dry and hurting for a fix and starting into a withdrawal phase. There is no reason I or anyone else should ever be robbed, assaulted, or hassled by somebody because they can't afford their next fix, end prohibition and let these people get high in their crappy apartments in between shifts at McDonalds (or even in between receiving their welfare checks, if that's your kind of thing).

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Stop wasting his time AWoodside. Everybody knows that drugs are straight poison that will kill you if you even say their names aloud.

[AWoodside]

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In Sweden prostitution is illegal. If a women decides nonetheless that she wants to sell her body she will not be punished for it, only the person to whom she sells herself to will be(not severely). What if you were to have the same system on drugs only in reverse? Punish those who sell but not those who buy?

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That would be a step in the right direction I suppose. This would help unclog our prison system of non-violent offenders and allow police resources to focus on more important things, however, because dealers would still have to operate apart from the law you wouldn't do away with a lot of the black-market drawbacks that make the whole thing such a mess. You would still have terrorist groups, brutal third world dictators, and domestic gangs funded through the drug trade (although it would be interesting to consider in more depth the degree to which this would be mitigated in your scenario) and all the other misappropriation of resources and excuses to expand government power into spheres it has no business being in.

[Edukashun]

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I think whether you abuse drugs or not you may easily find yourself addicted to them and that's when your problems start.
Of course some may harm or kill you right away.

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The potential for drugs to harm or kill you right away is drastically overblown and mostly a product of prohibition to boot. Because drug users have no option but to deal with a black market, many of the quality-control mechanisms present in free markets are not there such as a reliable and consistent source, consumer reporting groups, hell even government regulated safety standards if you're into that. Even a drug that is as full-out as heroin can be used responsibly for an entire lifetime as long as it's not abused. Its a lot easier to overdose when you aren't sure how pure the product your using is or what impurities it has. Another example, most times when people get severely screwed up on ecstasy it's because they took pills from a "bad batch". If a large company operating in a free market provided the ecstasy the possibility of it being chemically bad approaches 0. When was the last time you felt uncomfortable taking tylenol because you were afraid the manufacturers executed the chemical extraction wrong?

As for addiction, nobody will deny that some drugs are ridiculously addictive. It's a sad state of affairs that people suffering from a substance abuse problem have severely curtailed resources for getting help because they're criminals in the eyes of society. Not only have you exacerbated the plight of the unfortunate by instituting prohibition, you've restricted the freedoms of responsible drug users everywhere from enjoying something they truly value. There are drug experiences that can be immensely rewarding and constructive for those that approach things responsibly. This should be clear from the fact that countless human cultures have based meditative practices, lifestyles, and entire religions around them. This deep, nuanced, and fascinating aspect of the human experience has been all but cut away by modern society.

I'm pretty much rambling now, but one last thought. The artificially high prices that black markets create compound the problems too. People point to the fact that some junkies steal for their high and this is a reason that drugs should be illegal. It's not uncommon for hookers in a place like Atlantic City to spend between 100 and 200 dollars per day on their fix. If prohibition were ended they could support their habits for no more than it costs to buy a pack of cigarettes a day. Most drugs (there are exceptions, alcohol among others) don't tend to make people a nuisance to society until they are dry and hurting for a fix and starting into a withdrawal phase. There is no reason I or anyone else should ever be robbed, assaulted, or hassled by somebody because they can't afford their next fix, end prohibition and let these people get high in their crappy apartments in between shifts at McDonalds (or even in between receiving their welfare checks, if that's your kind of thing).

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Very well put, I'm glad somebody could articulate this for me.

[Mr_Moore]

Awoodside, It is probably as you say. Many drugs or not well done and also not safe because of that. And, the war on drugs in the us probably cause way more damage then if the drugs were legal. Still it remains true that because they are so addictive it is hard to remain and normal individual. They will consume you.
Also the rewards you mentioned are not the kind of productive human achievements i was referring to.

[zasterguava]

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Drugs have been used since the dawn of time, it's a very modern idea that some should be restricted.
I have some experience of the pros as well as the cons so I know they can be dangerous.
I do think that if legalised it would save a lot of money as well of removing some of the "do drugs to be a rebel" mentality that many teenagers have.

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Frankly, I think if parents just sat down with their teenage kids and smoked a joint with them, pot would lose all of its coolness.

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I can confirm from experience that this is true. As soon as I realised smoking cannabis was "acceptable" in my family I lost interest in it. I think the same would happen WHEN society learns to accept drug use and legalise it.

[Mr_Moore]

I think its insane to get sent to prison for doing drugs. People should do what they want as long as they are affecting them selfs only. The war on drugs is a failure and cause mayhem on many different levels.
But how can we accept drugs to be available? what good comes from them?

[AWoodside]

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Drugs have been used since the dawn of time, it's a very modern idea that some should be restricted.
I have some experience of the pros as well as the cons so I know they can be dangerous.
I do think that if legalised it would save a lot of money as well of removing some of the "do drugs to be a rebel" mentality that many teenagers have.

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Frankly, I think if parents just sat down with their teenage kids and smoked a joint with them, pot would lose all of its coolness.

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I can confirm from experience that this is true. As soon as I realised smoking cannabis was "acceptable" in my family I lost interest in it. I think the same would happen WHEN society learns to accept drug use and legalise it.

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While I can appreciate that this was true for you, I doubt that it would be the case for society in general. Just look at alcohol, which is for the most part accepted and legal in American society. It's abused all the time. There is definitely a subset of drug users that get into it because they're feeling rebellious and what-not, and acceptance would probably effect that groups aggregate behavior in one way or another, but as far as a widespread shift in frequency of use, I think you're being a bit optimistic.

[T50_Omaha8]

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Drug users haven't hurt anybody.

[/ QUOTE ] Actually they are almost necessarily supporting organizations which have hurt people.

It's also worth mentioning that these organizations would never have been able to hurt people if the drugs were legal in the first place.

Wait...did I just use a straw man?