Restating My "Religion Does Good" Post More Explicitly

[carlo]

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he queen mother has been dead for a while now...

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Who was in Virginia in May of this year? Yipes!! Another conspiracy!

[bunny]

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Yipes!!! The British Lion bows it's head to thunderous applause. Justification is here, the Queen Mother sits in the kitchen, breathing a sigh of relief. If not for Sklansky we were lost but now Rule Brittanica!!. Henry the Eighth rolls in his grave, a smile, the righteous justification of adultery.

Big Ben, the Royal Navy, Houses of Parliment hold day of celebration as justification is succinct, clear and in wondrous procession.

Pox on you!! Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, Conservative Jew, Christians not of the Island, and of course all others!The work of men through their lives in concert is nothing for the Grecian Harp, Roman Law, a Beethoven Sonata, the Wonder of a Michaelangelo were all for nought, lost in the dismal burp of an improbable chance.

The blather of an Olympian Hubris, reason of the unreasonable strikes again. fades away....

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I'm genuinely curious about this. When you make a post like the above - do you choose your words to make the concepts you are trying to convey as simple and as clear as possible to the reader? Or do you have some other criteria for choosing them?

[luckyme]

OP doesn't contribute anything to our understanding of the real world. HOW one comes to have no belief in a personal god is much more relevant than THAT they have no such belief.

let's sse -
Little boys with dogs are happier than little boys without dogs. I'll prove this to you by taking away tommorrow all the dogs that little boys have.
I'll ignore all the happy asian little boys that eat dogs and have pet pigs. Or all the happy swedish ones with no pets.

See, tol' ya, I'm right.

luckyme

[carlo]

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I'm genuinely curious about this. When you make a post like the above - do you choose your words to make the concepts you are trying to convey as simple and as clear as possible to the reader? Or do you have some other criteria for choosing them?



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Huh? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[Duke]

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Am I naive to believe that a number of people, if told tomorrow 'There is 100% NO GOD - here's the proof', would suddenly see things like rape, murder, theft, robbery etc. acceptable?

I am not saying I agree or disagree with OP, just trying to add something that seems to be always forgoten in these conversations. And I am not only talking about devout believers here. There is a MASSIVE difference between non-belief in god, (and in the ramifications therin implied with regard to everlasting punishment/reward etc,) and knowing for a fact there is no god.

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There are perhaps 3 people on this board who claim that they'd behave as you describe.

I'm pulling that number out of my ass.

[David Sklansky]

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OP doesn't contribute anything to our understanding of the real world. HOW one comes to have no belief in a personal god is much more relevant than THAT they have no such belief.

let's sse -
Little boys with dogs are happier than little boys without dogs. I'll prove this to you by taking away tommorrow all the dogs that little boys have.
I'll ignore all the happy asian little boys that eat dogs and have pet pigs. Or all the happy swedish ones with no pets.

See, tol' ya, I'm right.

luckyme

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Its a lot easier to adjust to no dog then to no heaven or no hope that prayers will be answered.

[madnak]

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There is a MASSIVE difference between non-belief in god, (and in the ramifications therin implied with regard to everlasting punishment/reward etc,) and knowing for a fact there is no god.

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There are no ramifications. Unless we ascribe characteristics to God, then any possible reward/punishment is essentially random. For every possible God who would reward a given action, there is a possible God who would punish that action in equal degree.

But that's off the subject. Do you really think nonbelievers are significantly motivated by fears about the afterlife? To such an extent that their behavior would change meaningfully if they were to learn that there are definitely no gods?

I really don't think afterlife is a significant motivator. Oh, it logically should be, for people who believe in it - but then again, the majority of people act in ways perfectly consistent with their surroundings and with self interest/reciprocal altruism. A person who believes that cheating on his wife will send him to hell is just as likely to cheat as a person who has no such belief. People don't tend to respond in their day-to-day lives to these kinds of threats. They do tend to respond to immediate pain and the threat of sanctions in life.

Overall, I think morality is a matter of biology and conditioning - not of belief. And most people just don't want to go around causing chaos and hurting others.

I was affected by the theistic ideas, and I became consumed with guilt and had regular panic attacks featuring the hell I was sure I would go to. In my case, I was no less moral after abandoning the idea of God, but I'm much more functional and self-confident now (which allows me to do much greater good overall). Oh yeah, did I mention I'm happier?

[madnak]

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Its a lot easier to adjust to no dog then to no heaven or no hope that prayers will be answered.

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Complete appeal to emotion. If you're going that route, then I raise you self-determination and human dignity, and no hell. Let's just toss John Lennon's "Imagine" in there while we're at it - these kinds of emotional supports have nothing to do with religion.

[David Sklansky]

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Its a lot easier to adjust to no dog then to no heaven or no hope that prayers will be answered.

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Complete appeal to emotion. If you're going that route, then I raise you self-determination and human dignity, and no hell. Let's just toss John Lennon's "Imagine" in there while we're at it - these kinds of emotional supports have nothing to do with religion.

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You are in an ivory tower. Most people in this world are a lot more concerned with prayers being answered and going to heaven than they are with human dignity and self determination (even if they are, as you imply, mutually exclusive). As for no religion meaning no hell, most religious people either don't believe in it or think its pretty simple to avoid.

[Duke]

I read this thread title as "retracting" instead of restating. I can only hope.