Cbetting on the flop based on number of loose passive fishes.

[jbird]

[ QUOTE ]
Unless I'm for some reason tilting or the table is truly playing loose/passive, then I check this behind pretty much every time. Betting here really doesn't give you very much information at all; unless you have dead-on reads on the players, people are going to call here with anything from str8 draws, to a pair of Jacks with a gutter, to tight/passive players that prefer to check/call top 2, or top and bottom, etc.. Betting on a dry flop with an overpair is IMO -EV.

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Wow Gordo, this surprises me. Can you please go into more detail about why we don't want to charge straight draws, gutters, etc.

Also, at mid-stakes, a c-bet with any 4 cards as the preflop raiser takes down the pot enough on a flop with a texture like this IMO, and I think if we are smoothcalled or raised we certainly gain a lot more information about our villains possible holdings.

[sc000t]

[ QUOTE ]
bet for value

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Wow, don't dissagree with Jbird, he's obv the king of the PLO forum. Jeez what a jerk!



JK obv [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[tautomer]

No flush draws on the board, I'd fire away.

[donkeykong2]

as long as they are passive and dont reraise with straight draws or as a bluff, betting cant be to wrong, or not?

[RoundTower]

[ QUOTE ]
Unless I'm for some reason tilting or the table is truly playing loose/passive, then I check this behind pretty much every time. Betting here really doesn't give you very much information at all; unless you have dead-on reads on the players, people are going to call here with anything from str8 draws, to a pair of Jacks with a gutter, to tight/passive players that prefer to check/call top 2, or top and bottom, etc.. Betting on a dry flop with an overpair is IMO -EV.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm also a bit surprised by this. You probably have the best hand, a lot of those hands that you mentioned will call you are behind and you want to charge them. Also checking behind doesn't allow you to pick up many outs. This flop isn't as dry as you seem to think.

[Toesack]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why? I would never bet this for value, go for full pot and try to take it down. If someone calls you there's a good chance you're going to lose and betting less than pot means a queens up (or even 4s up) will stick around out of curiosity.

Edit: I still dislike posts with one line and no explanation.

Also I hate posts that just say "u r wrong" and don't give any reason why their poster is the king jesus of omaha.


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Who said anything about bet sizing?

I aslo didn't tell anybody they were wrong and I'm far from the king jesus of just about anything.

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Sorry if I sounded aggressive mate didn't mean to [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Maybe I don't know the definitions correctly, but "value bet" to me is "bet just small enough where they'll call even though we're way ahead." For instance I would value bet this with QQ. But in this case, I would pot the flop and if anyone called I'd c/f unless we hit some fantastic card on the turn (like a K).

Edit: I still dislike posts with one line and no explanation. Reminds me too much of the haughty high-stakes NL players who do in fact think they're king jesus of the world.

[gordo16]

Maybe it is a matter of a difference of hand selection between the stakes that I play and the stakes described in this post, but 4-handed, KKxx on a dry J34 board is going to be ahead on this flop (ahead in the percentages not in actually being ahead at the moment) less than 25% of the time. Like I said, if the game is truly loose-passive, then by all means, I fire out. But in a standard game, if your bet is called, you are realisitcally drawing to two Ks or running or straight cards. So many cards on the turn are scare cards for your hand (any card that pairs the turn, any 2,5,6 or 7, etc) that it would be correct to lay down for a bet. I guess that I just prefer to get my money in on stronger hands.

In response to anyone that will say, "but what about charging them for their draws?" I just prefer to do it when I actually have a strong hands. I play for the big pots and I suppose consequently let some of the smaller ones like this go. Although, that is to say, I am by no means tight.

Sorry, I'm writing in my 2 minutes before class. I'll offer a better response later. Hopefully that gives a muddled picture of what I'm thinking though.

[RoundTower]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it is a matter of a difference of hand selection between the stakes that I play and the stakes described in this post, but 4-handed, KKxx on a dry J34 board is going to be ahead on this flop (ahead in the percentages not in actually being ahead at the moment) less than 25% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think this is true, and I play the same stakes as you at least sometimes. It's hard to flop a wrap and harder to flop a set of 3s or 4s.

[TimberBee]

I bet this flop 75% of the time at least. I'd bet 10$ here. But you should probably raise more PF, this isn't a hand were I want to 'sweet' the pot.