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#11
10-24-2006, 05:11 PM
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Re: What is the deal with all the new rooms not having players?
[ QUOTE ]
2. Not complaining, but why did MGM give up that much prime real estate to a poker room? Those tables are just ridiculous roomy and it's a great location. [/ QUOTE ] Casinos seem to me to be a little bipolar about poker; there's this love/hate thing with it. Most seem to have figured out it's better to have a poker room than not, since not having one will cost you business--the number of times I've heard someone at a poker table say he doesn't really gamble but he's staying with a full comp in a 1200sqft suite that his wife's $5 slot habit got 'em can't be counted. Those are the folks a casino just won't get without a poker room for the hubby to spend time in while waiting for dinner and a show. Yet the casino would make a lot more money if all these poker players were dropping dollars into slots or betting greens on odd. So the other casino management (slots in particular) look jealously at the realestate the poker room takes up and probably monthly presents a report to the execs showing how much more the casino could make if they'd just put slots in where the poker room is. So you get the whole range of poker rooms in Vegas. You have the little "rooms" that are really just 8 tables stuck in an obscure location, like Paris. And on the other end the Venetian and Caesars who actually spent a lotta money and devoted a lot of space to creating a real poker room. As for MGM realestate... they do have a lot of it. They can kinda afford to devote some space to poker. When the MGM first opened, the area that poker is in was actually just a giant Wizard of Oz display (I think...my memory is a tad fuzzy going back that far, but I recall a big dome with projected skies and Dorothy/ScareCrow/Tinman/Toto in the center). So they've found something better to do with it since then. As for why Vegas can't keep the poker rooms filled despite having 200,000 tourists in strip hotel rooms on busy weekends, I don't know. 
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#12
10-24-2006, 05:17 PM
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Re: What is the deal with all the new rooms not having players?
[ QUOTE ]
As for why Vegas can't keep the poker rooms filled despite having 200,000 tourists in strip hotel rooms on busy weekends, I don't know. [/ QUOTE ] Nobody flies into Vegas to fold. Playing poker just isn't what people want to do on vacation (especially at the limits that are typically spread).
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#13
10-24-2006, 08:54 PM
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Re: What is the deal with all the new rooms not having players?
Why was the Venetian included in this list?
Isn't located next to one of the entrances? It didn't seem like it was 'tucked in the back' or something like that like Caesar's is. But I did get pretty confused when walking around the Venetian one time so maybe my memory is incorrect.
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#15
10-25-2006, 12:11 AM
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Re: What is the deal with all the new rooms not having players?
[ QUOTE ]
1. Why doesn't it have higher limit action? It's a nice hotel in a cool spot, and you'd figure the accessibility of the poker room would make some mid limit games move there. [/ QUOTE ] The upper management there has been clear about developing a low limit tourist room and not catering to locals and mid/high limit players. I’m sure they would gladly take the action but a room in Vegas doesn’t spread those games unless it’s something they actively pursue. Just look at all the steps the Venetian, a nice large hotel, has done to get some bigger games and how little success they have had.
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#16
10-25-2006, 01:39 AM
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Re: What is the deal with all the new rooms not having players?
You guys need to understand something about Vegas poker. Tourists make up 95% of the players on the strip and most all of them are not playing 30/60 and higher. They're all looking for 1/2 Nl and as low a limit game as they can find to just gamble, drink, and have a good time at. They're on vacation and not wanting to put up their life savings on a poker game.
Some do play the middle/upper limits, but not that many. Whereas, Southern California has a locals clientelle of 10x what Las Vegas has, maybe even higher.
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#17
10-25-2006, 06:16 PM
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Re: What is the deal with all the new rooms not having players?
A successful poker room is one where all tables are full at all times. It doesn't matter what limit is being spread. All tables packed with $2/4 limit poker? Great! The casino is making money.
As others in this thread have noted, Vegas poker rooms are filled with tourists. Tourists "do not come here to fold", but they don't come here to put their life savings on the line either (nod to Photoc). That is why there are so many low limit games in Vegas, and relatively few high limit games. Is the Vegas poker market over-built now? Yes. I think it is. Don't get me wrong, I think that every single casino should have a poker room, but it doesn't have to be 20, 15, or even 10 tables in size. Nicely appointed 4-5 table poker rooms work fine. At the moment, there are not too many poker rooms in Las Vegas, but there are too many poker tables. There just isn't enough action here for 10+ rooms with 20+ tables each, combined with all the smaller poker rooms. There is a correction coming in the Las Vegas poker market. Don't look for too many poker rooms to close completely, but keep your eyes open for downsizing. Combined with the recent internet poker legislation, it's the perfect storm. Downsizing will be the headline in 2007.
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#18
10-25-2006, 06:55 PM
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Re: What is the deal with all the new rooms not having players?
[ QUOTE ]
First off, Vegas slows down from Sept to Dec every year. [/ QUOTE ] really? my understanding was that it only really slowed down from Thanksgiving to Christmas, and that most of the fall was popular for football season, reasonable weather, etc.
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#20
10-25-2006, 07:46 PM
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Re: What is the deal with all the new rooms not having players?
[ QUOTE ]
is the Vegas poker market over-built now? Yes. I think it is. Don't get me wrong, I think that every single casino should have a poker room, but it doesn't have to be 20, 15, or even 10 tables in size. Nicely appointed 4-5 table poker rooms work fine. [/ QUOTE ] I disagree with this. Not every casino needs to have a small room. Vegas right now has too mant tables and they are spread out among to many casinos. Poker is unlike almost all the other games in a casino, in that it requires multiple players to play the game. In order to maintain a successful room you need to have a steady flow of players to keep the games going. in order to do this you need to attract more than just the casual tourist who walks by and says "Gee poker, I'd like to give that a try". If thats who your players are you can't keep games going you'll have games start and break and never really take hold. You need to also attract players who are looking to play poker (this can be locals and tourists). Too many rooms spread these players out to much, and while if they were all consolidated these players would have multiple strong games going instead they are spread out waiting for a game to start or playing in a game on the verge of breaking.
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