Absolute Soulreading/Rigged thread #3

[Victor]

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Again, the aggression factor is damning. It's not just a donk that decided, "Hey, I'm gonna try to be more aggressive and see what happens." It's a player who raises or folds EVERY river when it's an option, only losing the pot when he bluffs and fails, or declines to bluff. And his actions taken vs. his opponent's actual holdings are essentially perfect. He induces bluffs from draws he has high-carded and calls. He makes loose calls of PF pushes that he ALWAYS ends up being slightly ahead of. From that, it's not "Oh, a donk called a shove with A high because he's a donk," it's "Oh, someone WOULD call a shove with A high when he knows his opponent has K high, and given ALL THIS OTHER EVIDENCE he probably DOES know."

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I see so many flawed an biased reasonings in this thread that I just have to make another post. Sorry Kurt.

There ate two theories here:

1. AP is rigged
2: An idiot donk decides to never call river and run hot for a few hundred hands.

The HHs seem to support #1 above. But what if #2 was true. What would the HHs look like? What would the HHs look like if an idiot donk decides to never call river and then run hot for a few hundred hands. What would they look like?

Think about it!

They would look like he could see your hole cards!

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ya thats what we are saying. it looks like he can see hole cards.

[Trogdor!]

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Again, the aggression factor is damning. It's not just a donk that decided, "Hey, I'm gonna try to be more aggressive and see what happens." It's a player who raises or folds EVERY river when it's an option, only losing the pot when he bluffs and fails, or declines to bluff. And his actions taken vs. his opponent's actual holdings are essentially perfect. He induces bluffs from draws he has high-carded and calls. He makes loose calls of PF pushes that he ALWAYS ends up being slightly ahead of. From that, it's not "Oh, a donk called a shove with A high because he's a donk," it's "Oh, someone WOULD call a shove with A high when he knows his opponent has K high, and given ALL THIS OTHER EVIDENCE he probably DOES know."

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I see so many flawed an biased reasonings in this thread that I just have to make another post. Sorry Kurt.

There ate two theories here:

1. AP is rigged
2: An idiot donk decides to never call river and run hot for a few hundred hands.

The HHs seem to support #1 above. But what if #2 was true. What would the HHs look like? What would the HHs look like if an idiot donk decides to never call river and then run hot for a few hundred hands. What would they look like?

Think about it!

They would look like he could see your hole cards!

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god you are retarded

[LongTimeLurker72]

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Repost from another forum:

Dear Mr. xxxxxxxx,

Thank you for contacting us.

We have been following the forums closely and are aware of your concern.

First, we’d like to assure you that a ‘super-user’ account does not exist. Absolute Poker was created by poker players who value security and fair play. The backend of the Absolute Poker software makes it impossible for such an account to function. Our game client only receives data regarding an individual’s hand and no other player hole cards are ever visible – by anyone – except in the event of a showdown.

We have temporarily frozen the accounts of the players in question while we continue our extensive investigation. At this point, we have found no evidence of wrongdoing. However, given the seriousness of these allegations, our investigation will go on.

Our fraud department has combed through all hands involving the accounts that were mentioned in the online forum. Please note that the examples mentioned in the forum present only a small snapshot of each player’s activity. Our ongoing investigation continues to show that the long-term success rates of these players aren’t in line with what the forum suggests.

Fair play and security are as important to Absolute Poker management and staff as they are to our players. Our fraud department is dedicated to ensuring that everyone on the site has a fair opportunity to win. We stand by the results of our random number generator and we take great pride in
our game client security.

Absolute Poker remains a 100% secure place to play. We value all of our players and we will continue to provide our community with a safe, secure and exciting online poker experience.

Thank you, once again, for your email. If we can be of any other assistance, please don’t hesitate to contact us.

Thanks for playing at Absolute Poker!
Sincerely,

Alexa

Well no [censored] the long term results don't pan out. That's the whole point. These players were big losers until they learned how to cheat!

Is Absolute seriously examining hands from months ago?

WTF.

Fell

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It sounds like THIS is exactly where the disconnect in thinking between Absolute's staff and the players is. We have GOT to send them some emails telling them:

A. The fact the alleged cheating started approximately the same time as the 8.0 software update, thus the theory of a software security leak or installed backdoor.

B. That the "cheating" sessions and "chip dumping" sessions are TWO SEPERATE ISSUES, and the results for them cannot be combined.

Assuming Absolute is ignorant of A and B, it's easy to see why they have so far found nothing wrong.

[MonJamon]

Isn't this issue diluting as days pass? No more talking about that in international forums.

Looks like the bad guys are winning the match (at the moment).

[Trogdor!]

If anything, other sites should learn to hire competant staff and not outsource just to save $$

If this happened at stars for example
1. It wouldnt have because stars would have spotted it and instantly stoped it.

I once colluded a microstakes game for fun and stars sent an email asking me to explain my stratergy. Now if they can notice this at a microstakes game theres no way it would be missed at a HS game

2. If it did happen they atleast would of sorted it out pretty promptly and communicated to the players involved as they have a competant support staff that can atleast read and write and dont just copy+paste from a FAQ or w/e

It just seems like AP doesn't take security seriously like some of the other sites.

In summary, spend the $$ like stars do and you dont get your reputation destroyed like AP do

[darkcore]

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Well no [censored] the long term results don't pan out. That's the whole point. These players were big losers until they learned how to cheat!

Is Absolute seriously examining hands from months ago?

WTF.

Fell

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It sounds like THIS is exactly where the disconnect in thinking between Absolute's staff and the players is. We have GOT to send them some emails telling them:

A. The fact the alleged cheating started approximately the same time as the 8.0 software update, thus the theory of a software security leak or installed backdoor.

B. That the "cheating" sessions and "chip dumping" sessions are TWO SEPERATE ISSUES, and the results for them cannot be combined.

Assuming Absolute is ignorant of A and B, it's easy to see why they have so far found nothing wrong.

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don't let youself be fool by the emails from absolute. chances are that the normal supportmonkeys have no idea what is going on and the securitymonkeys who know what's going on will quietly fix the problem and never admit that there was one.

and it doesn't matter what nature the hack was (superaccount, seeing your holecard hack, some script that filters the holecards serverside and sends them somewhere, or whatever). absolute will not admit that there was a security breach on there side. never ever.

that's why i think it is important to compile all the data and evidence and put it somewhere so that everyone has easy access to it, download study it and form his own opinion.

[MARK R]

I dont think AP would be allowed to release the HH when the hand did not go to show down. I think they would need to ask the users permission before they would release them. Also not sure what data protection laws are for poker sites and if releasing the HH would break these.

I know this is not the case but imagine if you want to know what someone had you could say they are cheating and they know the hole cards and you want to see the HH.

I dont think we will ever find out how they where viewing the cards. I just think AP will keep saying they have looked into the matter and it is now resolved. Maybe AP dont know how these users are viwing the hole card and belive themself that it is not possible. When AP say they locked the account and resolved this issue this may just be the chip dumping as these two things seem to have been lumped together.

Mark

[apefish]

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Of the analogies offered so far I like the Battleship one the best.
It is simple to follow and strongly parallel in the manner used to gain an advantage and inevitable outcomes.
I was trying to get a blind man playing darts to work. Battleship is better.

I've been waiting to see if we can get the HHs to import so we have more actual "meat" for a new cliffsnotes.
Going to start some reordering and rewriting of some of the original notes in anticipation of more material.


Pineapple- somehow I had read it as a minor leaguer tearing up the majors. Probably was someone responding to it instead. Anyhow my bad.

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Dude u decided against new Cliff notes?

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No. Had almost no time to do anything last afternoon/night. Was just saying I would start reorganizing the notes from this thread in the manner that has been discussed - starting with an overall summary.
I started it and will continue/clean it up in the morning.
Gonna sleep- wake up and try to post something that gels in the morning my time (central US).

peace.

[LAG Heuer]

Hi,

There is something I don't understand. Why would a cheater be so stupid that the way he plays will bring suspicion in the others players minds ? Shouldn't he, on the contrary, use this advantage once in a while to make big laydowns or big call to make it efficient on the long term ??

[FellKnight]

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I dont think AP would be allowed to release the HH when the hand did not go to show down. I think they would need to ask the users permission before they would release them. Also not sure what data protection laws are for poker sites and if releasing the HH would break these.

I know this is not the case but imagine if you want to know what someone had you could say they are cheating and they know the hole cards and you want to see the HH.

I dont think we will ever find out how they where viewing the cards. I just think AP will keep saying they have looked into the matter and it is now resolved. Maybe AP dont know how these users are viwing the hole card and belive themself that it is not possible. When AP say they locked the account and resolved this issue this may just be the chip dumping as these two things seem to have been lumped together.

Mark

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Back when I was just learning, I emailed True Poker about suspicious hands before and they have sent me the HH in question with all players' hole cards to explain that it was not cheating. If True Poker can do that, Absolute should be able to as well.

Fell