Aces, 10/20 Stud 8

LearnedfromTV · #1 07-31-2007, 07:53 AM

I hate getting in spots like this. I tried to do something a little tricky on fifth because neither of the two lows had a straight possible, and the pot was already getting big. So I figured I had to fight for high, and tried to bet into the lows, hoping that if one of them raised the guy who paired nines might fold a [censored] two pair or something like (76)599, and clean up high for me. And if they didn't raise, oh well, only one bet goes in. A queen and an 8 dead kinda sucks though.

Then on sixth, I'm jamming for value.

The threebettor on fifth is "somebody", a good regular on Stars. I think I should have folded fifth when it got back to me but my reasoning was, big pot and the two lows have each other's cards (rolled up less likely), the other guy can't possibly have a 9 in the hole (and I can't imagine what he could have), so I'm possibly still ahead for high, and if I'm not two pair will be good if I make it (the 99 guy probably has a pocket pair or a gutshot and threelow? He didn't seem bad enough to play like (JJ)5 this way against these boards).

7 Card Stud High-Low ($10/$20), Ante $1, Bring-In $3 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (5.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (4.90 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises

6th Street - (16.90 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls___calls
Hero: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets___raises___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___calls___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises___raises

On a side note, if either of the lows is showing 652, or 643, etc, I probably check fifth, call one bet and fold if it's two.. yeah?

LearnedfromTV · #2 07-31-2007, 08:03 AM

One negative I just now thought about is that me having two aces makes it more likely one or both lows are open ended.

2461Badugi · #3 07-31-2007, 08:20 AM

Ugly, ugly spot. Somebody's trying to force you out of the pot on fifth, and I think you have to let him, because if either he or Seat 1 has a real hand you're going to put in a ton of bets drawing incredibly slim for half.

I strongly suspect you put in a lot of bets on sixth with two outs for half the pot.

wheatrich · #4 07-31-2007, 08:25 AM

well the A's should be dead so I wouldn't be worried about that part of the open ended (at least I'm assuming seat 6 has A3 in the hole) I'm pretty lost on seat 1's hand too even the 9 of clubs is dead. 56799 is about the only half reasonable hand I can come up with (buried queens/kings??). [but a 6, 7, 8, AND 9 are dead on third--so it's not reasonable at all jeez]

I would assume seat 6 has A3 in the hole or something close to that and seat 5 has 34? (but I'd most likely raise fourth with that--hmmm)

Hope the two lows didn't catch a 6/8 to make a straight (or backdoor on you). Or that seat 1 doesn't somehow have a 9. Yeah brutal spot.

HOWMANY · #5 07-31-2007, 08:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I strongly suspect you put in a lot of bets on sixth with two outs for half the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah as soon as seat 1 called 3 cold on 5th my thought was "wow, I don't know how, but somehow he has a 9". It makes absolutely no sense for him to have the 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] here, but I'm almost certain he does.

I would have folded 5th even if seat 1 had folded and it was 2 more to me because I seriously doubt the pot is big enough and you have to consider you may be jammed again on 6th and then at least 1 more bet on the river. Do you really want to put in 7+ bets here to maybe get half the pot?

RubbishCards · #6 07-31-2007, 01:35 PM

I expect (and probably deserve) to be ridiculed for this, but I'd check/fold 5th for one bet, and my instinct to fold is the same as my instinct not to put my hand in a fireplace. I already know what happens: you get burned.

As played, once all that action goes in on 5th the fact that you aren't up against a made straight doesn't mean you aren't completely hosed. Let's say we give seat 1 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the hole and the other two open enders with 34 and 46. Twodimes says you have 16% equity. If we upgrade seat 6 to a 4-flush that drops to 11%, and obviously if we give seat 1 a 9, it doesn't bear thinking about.

UpstateMatt · #7 07-31-2007, 02:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Yeah as soon as seat 1 called 3 cold on 5th my thought was "wow, I don't know how, but somehow he has a 9". It makes absolutely no sense for him to have the 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] here, but I'm almost certain he does.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly. Except that I'm thinking he has the case 5 in the hole too.

Turn Prophet · #8 07-31-2007, 03:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I expect (and probably deserve) to be ridiculed for this, but I'd check/fold 5th for one bet, and my instinct to fold is the same as my instinct not to put my hand in a fireplace. I already know what happens: you get burned.

[/ QUOTE ]
I won't ridicule you for that play; it's actually quite reasonable. At this point, any pot odds we're considering have to be cut in half because we're almost guaranteed to be playing for high only.

Given the boards, there is a significant chance we may be behind the player with exposed 9's for high, and the two players going low have a 100% freeroll on us for the entire pot. This is the very definition of reverse implied odds. That one bet on 5th street might give us a whole lot of headaches later, like when the pot starts getting jammed.

adanthar · #9 07-31-2007, 03:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Yeah as soon as seat 1 called 3 cold on 5th my thought was "wow, I don't know how, but somehow he has a 9". It makes absolutely no sense for him to have the 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] here, but I'm almost certain he does.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly. Except that I'm thinking he has the case 5 in the hole too.

[/ QUOTE ]

nah, he'd be, like, raising somewhere with a full house (I hope.)

he has a pair in the hole and is hoping 2 pair = good somehow.

UpstateMatt · #10 07-31-2007, 03:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Yeah as soon as seat 1 called 3 cold on 5th my thought was "wow, I don't know how, but somehow he has a 9". It makes absolutely no sense for him to have the 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] here, but I'm almost certain he does.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly. Except that I'm thinking he has the case 5 in the hole too.

[/ QUOTE ]

nah, he'd be, like, raising somewhere with a full house (I hope.)

he has a pair in the hole and is hoping 2 pair = good somehow.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree he might not have a boat, i think he might play a boat this way. If he raises 5th, he is capping it back for three cold to the only other high hand (which he might see as a weak 8-low), potentially inducing a fold. On 6th, the jam is being done for him.