AQo in MP against pf raiser

[MattHH]

I was reading Matt Hilger's Internet Holdem, and it suggests cold calling a raise in MP with AQo.

I was thinking that this hand should be either a fold against someone with standard pf agg and a raise against someone with a high pf agg (maybe like 15%+ pf raise).

Thoughts?

[Tugg]

I only play live and I am also usually either raising or folding this hand , depending on the opponents raising standards and their position. The majority of people in my game won't even raise AKo, so if one of them raises, AQo goes in the muck. If the raiser is a LAG and I can isolate,or if their are several callers and I have an equity advantage, I'll raise.About the only time I just call with this hand is in the blinds and I respect the raiser.

[mchilger]

Matt, you are correct. I discuss raising or folding AQ in the "advanced concepts" chapter which is right after the starting hand charts. I intended the starting hand charts to be used by players relatively new to the game, and assumed that they couldn't distinguish situations which warranted a reraise and situations which warranted a fold - so I chose the middle road. My philosophy is basically that once you reach a level to where you can ask questions like yours, then you probably shouldn't be using starting hand charts - which is why I wrote the advanced concepts chapter to try and help players start to make that adjustment.

Hope that helps. Matthew

[slavic]

Matthew -

Maybe I'll have to give your book a read again. When I read "call" with AQ it was a sign of this book shouldn't be trusted, and I set it down.

[MattHH]

Mr. Hilger,

I didnt realize you were on this forum. Thanks for the response. I first read your book when I was a complete newb like 2 years ago. Recently I started getting back into limit holdem and I was referencing your hand charts for situations that I was unsure about. I forgot about the "Advanced Concepts" section.

Anyways, this is how it reads on AQo (and a few other hands) in MP when there has been a raise:

"Strategies with these hands depend on the type of opponent that raised and the type of game. You could reraise these hands against some opponents, just call in a loose game, or possibly fold against a strong opponent in a tough game."

I played around a little with pokerstove and you are about an even favorite against the top 10% of hands, If you suspect your opponent is able to raise the top 10% or more hands from EP, than it would seem to make sense to raise and narrow down the field.

I'm not sure what the reasoning is of just calling at a loose table. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just having trouble reasoning this out.

I do realize that you are giving general advice here and not a recipe for playing AQo.

Either way, I need to add your book to my reading list and read it in entirety again.

[chesspain]

Read Feeney's chapter on AQo in Inside the Poker Mind.

[mchilger]

I don't post here frequently but I will try and answer questions about the book or clarify points when they come up. Let me elaborate a little more on my philosphy for starting hand charts.

The hands that you play when starting out should be a lot different than the hands you play as an advanced player. The logic is pretty simple here - beginners make more postflop mistakes than advanced players. It is easy to see that some hands will have negative EV for a beginning player where an advanced player could squeek out a profit.

Although not as easy to see, I also think how you play a hand preflop might be different for beginning players than advanced players. When beginning players raise before the flop, they have a tendency to play their hands too far. That idea was the the basis for some of my assumptions when creating the starting hand guidelines. I did clarify the strategies within the text - but people mostly focus on the charts.

When I came up with the starting hand charts, they weren't meant to be optimal starting hand strategy for advanced players. If I, or anyone else did that, then 99% of the players would be playing too many hands. The best players in the world can play more hands profitably than even advanced players.

So there is a lot of judgment that comes into play and a fine line that you must choose when making these kinds of recommendations. I chose a tighter strategy, although I would actually recommend that complete beginners play even tighter than my charts recommend. Once a player demonstrates that he is a profitable player then he can start playing more hands. He can also start to distinguish between raising situations and folding situations. If someone told a beginning player to always reraise AQ, I wouldn't have a problem with it - but I doubt the EV is that much different than always calling. Sometimes he would be in profitable situations and sometimes negative, and I expect it would pretty much even out. Advanced players can make the right types of decisions to eek out more profits with the hand.

Having said this, I am working on a new edition for the book. I wrote ITH back in 2002. The game has changed some and players are able to "advance" their games faster today than back then due to so many more resources. As a result, the new book will include some revised guidelines to the charts which I think overall are probably slightly looser, while also showing a few more situations to "raise or fold".

Matthew

[Frond]

Good stuff Mr. H

Wish you would in fact post a lot more here.

Thanks

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't post here frequently but I will try and answer questions about the book or clarify points when they come up. Let me elaborate a little more on my philosphy for starting hand charts.

The hands that you play when starting out should be a lot different than the hands you play as an advanced player. The logic is pretty simple here - beginners make more postflop mistakes than advanced players. It is easy to see that some hands will have negative EV for a beginning player where an advanced player could squeek out a profit.

Although not as easy to see, I also think how you play a hand preflop might be different for beginning players than advanced players. When beginning players raise before the flop, they have a tendency to play their hands too far. That idea was the the basis for some of my assumptions when creating the starting hand guidelines. I did clarify the strategies within the text - but people mostly focus on the charts.

When I came up with the starting hand charts, they weren't meant to be optimal starting hand strategy for advanced players. If I, or anyone else did that, then 99% of the players would be playing too many hands. The best players in the world can play more hands profitably than even advanced players.

So there is a lot of judgment that comes into play and a fine line that you must choose when making these kinds of recommendations. I chose a tighter strategy, although I would actually recommend that complete beginners play even tighter than my charts recommend. Once a player demonstrates that he is a profitable player then he can start playing more hands. He can also start to distinguish between raising situations and folding situations. If someone told a beginning player to always reraise AQ, I wouldn't have a problem with it - but I doubt the EV is that much different than always calling. Sometimes he would be in profitable situations and sometimes negative, and I expect it would pretty much even out. Advanced players can make the right types of decisions to eek out more profits with the hand.

Having said this, I am working on a new edition for the book. I wrote ITH back in 2002. The game has changed some and players are able to "advance" their games faster today than back then due to so many more resources. As a result, the new book will include some revised guidelines to the charts which I think overall are probably slightly looser, while also showing a few more situations to "raise or fold".

Matthew

[/ QUOTE ]

You fail the AQ test? [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Calling AQo in that spot blows.

It's a pretty basic reraise.

The foundation of a hand is built starting with preflop play.

[ QUOTE ]
The logic is pretty simple here - beginners make more postflop mistakes than advanced players.

[/ QUOTE ]

That doesn't mean a beginner should compound it by making basic preflop mistakes.

b