ehlp!

[wackjob]

8/16 6-max game: pretty standard 6-max O8 game, mostly poor players, the typical LAG is missing right now, so the game is a bit more passive than usual.

I'm UTG and get dealt:
J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and I limp in. (I sometimes raise here, but not at this table).

All other players at the table limp in as well. 6 to the flop.

FLOP: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
SB bets, BB calls, I raise, UTG1 calls, CO calls, button folds, SB calls, BB 3-bets, everyone calls.

TURN: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
SB checks, BB checks(?), I check(?), UTG1 bets, everyone calls.

RIVER: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
everyone checks.


Does anyone play this different? Try to steal the river(haha), bet the turn?

[howzit]

i need at least 3 michelob lights to call that preflop baby.

no flop raise, no turn bet, no river bet.

why you wanna go crazy in a passive game?

[wackjob]

[ QUOTE ]
i need at least 3 michelob lights to call that preflop baby.

[/ QUOTE ]

you are missing a lot not playing this hand, especially in a 6-max game. i'd say you are lacking fundamental O8 theory even, but I don't know you well enough.

[Buzz]

Wackjob - Six to the flop and they all call three bets on the flop? Just as you are drawing to a straight, they're all drawing to something. Hard to say what.

If you bet the turn, somebody will almost surely call.

And then you'd have to be a maniac to bet this river. It's kind of amazing nobody else does. Maybe someone in early position is lying in the weeds, hoping for a check-raise.

It will often happen that when you are drawing, you will miss your draw. And that is what happened to you here. You had a decent draw after the flop, then you missed on the turn and again on the river.

Just take it in stride. Omaha-8 is a drawing game. Expect to draw and miss a lot.

Buzz

[wackjob]

[ QUOTE ]
Just take it in stride. Omaha-8 is a drawing game. Expect to draw and miss a lot.


[/ QUOTE ]

I understand this part of the game. I was looking for some comment or different opinion of how I played the flop & turn.

[Scott Y.]

The blinds often show up with some combo of 2pairs, sets, and even similar draws here. the guys behind you usually have a bit of a weaker range with low redraw aspirations. You almost always have (just) enough equity to jam 4-way - against just the blinds you're probably some sort of dog. It's not clear to me whether raising or calling is best. We aren't talking about huge EV in any case. I'd tend to call, on the strength of raising BB if you turn an 8.

The turn card really sucks, though it looks harmless. You want to see a cheap river. Now 3 high outs are tainted and the 4 eights make at least a low. It also looks like BB is counting on similar draws. Easy check.

Try out twodimes with some possible hands here. Make sure to see what happens those times other people hold some of your cards and/or catch that flush redraw.

[Shabamabam]

Fwiw, I play it exactly the same. I think limp > raise > fold with this hand UTG 6-handed.

[howzit]

whack job. . . i'm [censored] w/you. it's a good hand to play in a passive game and i'm never dumping it in 8/16. however, when i'm playing tough players who have position, there isn't much you're giving up by tossing it.

one more caveat. . .if the game is 3 vietnamese 36 year olds rocking class 4 diamonds on 14 carat pinkie rings, one 77 year-old white-haired grandma calling every bet on every street on every pot and two twenty year old hold'em players, then call as many bets as it takes to get to the flop.

anywho, here's what i think about flop and turn play: you kind of turn your hand over for the strong hand readers on the turn. on the flop, it's most likely set of 3s or broadway wrap since most O8 players won't be limping UTG w/tens or nines combo, so raising the flop and NOT jamming it when it's 3 to you puts you on a wrap draw. (this is fine cuz your equity is good) but if you factor in that this is a limped pot and that you don't have any blockers, the probability of a set of nines/tens for one of the blinds is higher now. then since you probably can't jam out the two guys behind on flop if you make it 4 bets, that backs you into a corner since you don't have position to jam a badgui turn; the turn is a money loser for you. so, generally if i have the button/position for the rest of the hand, i don't mind raising/capping the flop. but if you're going to get called down behind you no matter what you do, just call the flop/turn.

also, factor in the times you hit a J/Q/K on the turn and estimate the #s of bets you'll expect to make. . .i don't know the expectation but it's probably not much as all the backdoor lows are gonna let go.

not that i'm stereotypical or anything but in a passive game the money is won by calling down when behind and betting when you're ahead.

(i edited this for grammar mistakes and make sure the vietnamese are properly represented)

[howzit]

also, if i'm playing good thinking players who know my style and vice versa, i'd be more wiling to open this for a raise preflop.

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand this part of the game. I was looking for some comment or different opinion of how I played the flop & turn.

[/ QUOTE ]Wackjob - You played fine on the flop and turn.

I would probably not have raised on the flop because I would want to keep as many customers in the pot as possible. However, since four opponents put in money after you raised, two (UTG+1 and CO) calling a double bet, you apparently played these particular opponents better than I would have.

From your perspective, looking at four high cards in your own hand and one low card on the flop, low will be enabled roughly one time out of three.

What can BB have to limp and then re-raise after you make it two bets? I'd guess also KQJX. Then what can UTG+1 and CO hold to call a double bet after this flop? I would presume they have some sort of fit with the flop. Sets? Straight draws? Two pairs? Hard to know what.

SB is a mystery.

Since BB seems to hold the same approximate draw as you, you decline (correctly in my humble opinion, although it seems a close decision) to make it four bets. In case your ship comes in, you really do want customers. But maybe I'm wrong and UTG+1, CO, and SB would all call another double bet.

Then everybody evidently misses on the turn (except that somebody now undoubtedly has a low draw) and the betting gets checked around on the third betting round. I don't see any realistic way for you to take down the pot here, and considering that BB probably has the same draw as you, you don't have favorable odds to initiate fresh money into the pot. Because of the two spades after the turn, you don't even have 12 outs anymore - just 8 outs. Now it's 36 to 8 against you. That would be close to enough to bet if you weren't almost surely looking at only half or maybe only a third of the pot if you made your straight on the river. (If all four called you bet, you'd be getting 3:2 for fresh money).

Buzz