Mason... Sir,

[BluffTHIS!]

Losit,

Look at the other side of the issue. How difficult is it really for the Engineer to just copy and past a disclaimer, and/or be content with a subtitle noting his membership in the PPA board? Mason actually has taken a middle stand between not allowing a board member to post here when his own position on the organization is neutral, and the other end of not requiring any notice of affiliation which infrequent readers may not already be aware of. The Engineer is only being asked to jump over a very low hurdle.

[Lostit]

[ QUOTE ]

Actually while he is a little stiff, he does have as do others some valid concerns.

Personally I'd like to lock "them" all in a room for a week and not let them out untill they have figured out their turf wars and just get on with the "movement."

All this talk of control and time outs makes me think there are too many only childs and yougests making all the demands while the rest of us have to clean up the messes.


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't agree with this more. I think in the case of Mason and TE, this should have been handled in a phone call, and not in a message board game of tag.

I see this in business all the time. Ego's are what get people to the top, and what makes them inevitably fall. Sometimes you need to put your ego aside, put trivial issues to bed, and get back to your real goals.

I'm not comfortable with some of the things I hear about the PPA, and I don't like egotistical behavior I see here either, but lets not throw the baby out with the bath water in either case.

If there was any type of leverage that someone could think of to lock these parties in a room until they worked out there differences, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

We need all of the parties involved here, but working together instead of this childishness.

[Lostit]

[ QUOTE ]
Losit,

Look at the other side of the issue. How difficult is it really for the Engineer to just copy and past a disclaimer, and/or be content with a subtitle noting his membership in the PPA board? Mason actually has taken a middle stand between not allowing a board member to post here when his own position on the organization is neutral, and the other end of not requiring any notice of affiliation which infrequent readers may not already be aware of. The Engineer is only being asked to jump over a very low hurdle.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bluff, as I stated before, I am not taking sides in this particular issue. I can understand both viewpoints. The issue to me is that this has gotten way out of hand, however we got here, and it needs to be put to bed.

If TE's info is on the PPA website, why can't Mason get him on the phone, and the two work it out. Would that hurt anyone?

If this were an average poster, I would fully support Mason telling him to go pound sand. In the case of TE however, work it out. I'm not saying cave in, I'm saying work it out.

[BluffTHIS!]

Losit,

Again, just how hard is it for TE to have a disclaimer and/or a subtitle? You are acting as if he is being to asked to do something very hard and that damages his integrity. If another board member, currently not a poster on 2p2, was asked to do this in advance, would/should that board member refuse when he/she thought that posting here could help the PPA? Again, the hurdle is very low even if it comes up at every turn.

[Lostit]

[ QUOTE ]
Losit,

Again, just how hard is it for TE to have a disclaimer and/or a subtitle? You are acting as if he is being to asked to do something very hard and that damages his integrity. If another board member, currently not a poster on 2p2, was asked to do this in advance, would/should that board member refuse when he/she thought that posting here could help the PPA? Again, the hurdle is very low even if it comes up at every turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

My honest answer? I don't understand why Mason or TE are being as obstinate as they are. Frankly it doesn't matter. The end result is that we are in the process of losing one of our most valuable resources. I think the point you are trying to make in a round about way is that this is trivial, so why can't he just agree? I agree it is trivial, but I'm not TE, so I don't fully understand. Nor do I care.

This whole thing is absurd at this point and needs to be fixed, however that happens. I don't really care how it happens, just that it does.

[BluffTHIS!]

Losit,

The bottom line is that this is Mason's joint. If he says to leave your shoes outside then you will if you really want to come in. If instead you let pride stand in your way, then it's on you and not Mason.

[Mason Malmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
I couldn't agree with this more. I think in the case of Mason and TE, this should have been handled in a phone call, and not in a message board game of tag.


[/ QUOTE ]

My original request for the identification was sent via PM to TE.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Lostit]

[ QUOTE ]
Losit,

The bottom line is that this is Mason's joint. If he says to leave your shoes outside then you will if you really want to come in. If instead you let pride stand in your way, then it's on you and not Mason.

[/ QUOTE ]

With all due respect bluff, I understand exactly what you're saying, but in this case I think its a little narrow minded. For 99.7% of the posters, you're absolutely correct. Leave your shoes at the door or hit the bricks, I got it. Individually, they mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. The grand scheme of things however is our continuing fight to be able to play poker. The PPA is a part of this. 2+2 is a part of this. Mason is a part of this. And thanks to his hard work, TE is a part of this.

My arguement is that he's a special case, due to all his hard work and results. I also agree that no one can come into "Mason's Joint" and spit on the floor. Things start to not work so well when that happens.

My arguement is that Mason was the one initiating a request here, which he 100% entitled to do. TE had an unexpected response to that request. We are now at an impasse. Should TE be above the rules? No way. Should Mason boot him out or antagonize him with one day suspensions over something that really isn't that big of a deal (to your point), and do other collateral damage like losing momentum with some of the letter writing to politicians? Doesn't make much sense there either.

Don't we have private messages on here? Isn't TE's information available for Mason to contact him? (I'm assuming Mason's is not available, which is understandable) At work, I see spats like this between very well compensated people, or between myself and them, all time. What do we do? We pick up the phone, sometimes we yell and scream for a while, but we figure something out and we move on. Why is that so hard here?

[YoureToast]

For what its worth and because BluffThis has already hijacked this thread (I get Mason's biases, however illogical they may be, but I don't understand and never have understood BluffThis's motivations), I need to say that I agree with Tuff Fish 100% on this. His point was right on the money. Thankfully for all of our sake, The Engineer is much much too mature, experienced, intelligent and motivated to be disuaded.

[BluffTHIS!]

Losit,

Here's my last post in this exchange. It should be evident that TE, who has indeed worked very hard, has done that hard work not for the direct benefit of 2p2 as a commercial entity, but for the benefit of the PPA. Even though 2p2 benefits in the long run from the goals of the PPA, it should be clear to all that the PPA benefits more from the TE's efforts. So it should be the PPA, and TE, who should be more willing to give here.

Also, as you imply, 2p2 does have global rules for everyone. If Mason makes an exception here, even though seemingly justified, he will doubtless be asked to make other exceptions which clearly aren't justified. So just as with any organization, the best policy long term is simply to have rules that apply equally to all. That may not be absolutely fair in discrete instances, but it will be perceived as fair by the majority of members/users.

Either TE will choose to make note that he is speaking his own views in each of his posts, or he won't. It just depends on what is most important to him and how important he views 2p2 as being to the success of the PPA.