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#21
05-03-2006, 03:21 PM
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Re: a 10/20 hand a friend played
[ QUOTE ]
So basically Hero can get 2 BB in by 3-betting the flop and leading the turn, or c/r the turn. Getting those two bets in on a non-heart turn, when the flush draw(s) have half the equity, is better IMO than getting one of those bets in on the flop. [/ QUOTE ] If Hero bets the flop and you cap, he's getting 2-3BBs in now, and another 2-3 on the turn. If he waits, and he's right about it not getting checked through (a big if) He'll get the same number of big bets on the turn. Even if you managed to put 2 big bets cold to bus on the turn, he is unfortunately still getting the odds to call. You can't protect your hand from the flush draw, but you should be worried about protecting your hand from non flush draws. If Rich or the button is ~3/45 to improve with a queen with a weaker kicker, You should wait until the turn when you could have a chance to face Rich with 2BB cold in a roughly 13BB pot. Of course, this is all assuming we're ahead on the flop. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] 
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#23
05-03-2006, 03:26 PM
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Re: a 10/20 hand a friend played
[ QUOTE ]
soma, this argument is not about protection, but about maximzing value. [/ QUOTE ] I'll bite, why isn't it about protection? We believe we have the best hand in a huge pot, and we have to assume all of our opponents are drawing live.
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#24
05-03-2006, 03:33 PM
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Re: a 10/20 hand a friend played
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] soma, this argument is not about protection, but about maximzing value. [/ QUOTE ] I'll bite, why isn't it about protection? We believe we have the best hand in a huge pot [/ QUOTE ] The only thing we can protect against is a gutshot in a pot this big. And any A2 or A4 are still only drawing to the gutter.
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#25
05-03-2006, 03:36 PM
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Re: a 10/20 hand a friend played
[ QUOTE ]
Coulda cleaned up A-outs. [/ QUOTE ] Oh yeah?
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#26
05-03-2006, 03:40 PM
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Re: a 10/20 hand a friend played
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] soma, this argument is not about protection, but about maximzing value. [/ QUOTE ] I'll bite, why isn't it about protection? We believe we have the best hand in a huge pot, and we have to assume all of our opponents are drawing live. [/ QUOTE ] like you said little bus is never folding his flush draw and we have to live with that. What we can do is make him put in a ton of bets. As for the others, 2p2er usually has a hand drawing to 3 outs (worse Q) or has us crushed (set) and megadonk is a megadonk and our goal against him is to make him put in a lot of money with whatever two cards he is holding. So based on handreading these people either a) have too many outs that no line we can come up with will get them to fold b) are too dumb to know what odds are and are calling nyway or c) drawing slim to begin with that getting them to forfeit their equity isn't a big gain for us (other 2p2er). IMO this hand is so close it probably doesn't matter either way.
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#28
05-03-2006, 03:41 PM
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Re: a 10/20 hand a friend played
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Coulda cleaned up A-outs. [/ QUOTE ] Oh yeah? [/ QUOTE ] I don't think this happens like, ever, but if the turn goes check by you, bet by Rich, and Margo raises, what's your plan? FWIW, I like 3 betting the flop in this specific situation, since I know Little bus likes doing things like call capping draws for value (played w/ him enough). Also, planning to c/r the turn allows him to do some stupid [censored] which makes the hand harder to play. Good hand= Bet, Okay hand=Call, Bad hand=Fold. TPTK= Good hand.
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#29
05-03-2006, 03:42 PM
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Re: a 10/20 hand a friend played
[ QUOTE ]
btw nice avatar bus [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] I'd hit it.
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