First Hand of the Million - Page 2

NoahSD · #11 11-12-2007, 06:04 PM

Preflop is fold > raise >>>>> complete. Completing here is really ugly... 24s is very much not a good hand.

Flop has to be a 3-bet since so much of his range is behind but not folding. I dunno about how to respond to a 4-bet cause I don't really know the players in the million.

djk123 · #12 11-12-2007, 06:09 PM

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Preflop is fold > raise >>>>> complete. Completing here is really ugly... 24s is very much not a good hand.

Flop has to be a 3-bet since so much of his range is behind but not folding. I dunno about how to respond to a 4-bet cause I don't really know the players in the million.

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I don't understand why you would want to fold pre? You don't think you can play it profitably vs a random in the million?

Hattifnatt · #13 11-12-2007, 06:12 PM

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Preflop is fold > raise >>>>> complete. Completing here is really ugly... 24s is very much not a good hand.

Flop has to be a 3-bet since so much of his range is behind but not folding. I dunno about how to respond to a 4-bet cause I don't really know the players in the million.

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I don't understand why you would want to fold pre? You don't think you can play it profitably vs a random in the million?

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no, and even if you can its extremely marginal and can probably lead to more trouble than good things. would you even consider something else than folding if the hand wasnt suited? bec that its suited is not that huge of a difference, esp OOP.

if you had some kind of read the specific player that he is a huge spewtard I dont mind raising or completing but as I tried to say in my other post, just that its a high chance he's a donk (that you dont even know what kind of donk he is) doesnt make this playable imo.

not saying that playing the hand is a huge leak or anything but I def think just folding it is the best play.

IWEARGOGGLES · #14 11-12-2007, 06:35 PM

The thing about preflop is that it folded to him in the SB.

I'd rather complete in a multi way pot than just SB/BB.

I mean, if what you guys are saying about wanting to play as many pots with bad players is true, are you limping any two suited cards in various positions?

I don't know, if it were to fold to me with 24s, I'd fold.

mastr · #15 11-12-2007, 07:55 PM

can we plz not talk about preflop... just let it be, i'm better then them postflop, and am easily easily easily winning chips with this hand after completing here against unknown and prefer to play it this way over raising. There are many things in the arsenal and I am not planning to limp-call pre, ok? does everyone really want to stack off 200 bb's on this flop?

JSchnett · #16 11-12-2007, 08:05 PM

3bet to 1k

zizazziza · #17 11-12-2007, 08:11 PM

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3bet to 1k

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Its hard for me to fold here, but difficult to put him on a hand that he would be 4b us that doesnt have us beat. I think that he would raise pf with QQ/JJ/AsQ/AsJ and maybe even 55/QJ. So we are left with Q5/J5 as hands we beat that he would be checking pf and 4b us on the flop (mebbe dry As if he is really dumb or really smart). W/o reads and he 4b us to to 2500-3k. I think I'm 5b ai, but I dont think that can be good.

Mench · #18 11-12-2007, 10:43 PM

3 bet to 950 and proceed depending on what he does. If he 4 bets I might fold, depending on 4bet size and speed. If he calls pot it on turn, and check/bet river depending on the change in board texture, assuming that board does not 4 flush.

registrar · #19 11-13-2007, 05:30 AM

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does everyone really want to stack off 200 bb's on this flop?

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This depends how the money goes in and obviously there is a chance that we will make a mistake against an unknown. I'm not especially happy to make a reasonably-sized three-bet and then call a push/four-bet because I think this really narrows his range to almost exclusively hands that beat us so, as I say, I'd rather call or do something weird like min-raise and keep his range nice and wide and stack off accordingly depending on bet-size and timing, fourth and fifth street. FWIW, I'd suggest that hands like this are trickier for HSMTT players because the ranges are so random and often totally unconnected to the board and what we're representing. I'm pretty sure, however, that he will make way bigger mistakes here, both in terms of telegraphing his holding and getting it in behind, if you three-bet really small. And I'm also sure that, in the Million, OPR-ing villain is somewhat essential.

LuckyLloyd · #20 11-13-2007, 06:37 AM

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does everyone really want to stack off 200 bb's on this flop?

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This depends how the money goes in and obviously there is a chance that we will make a mistake against an unknown. I'm not especially happy to make a reasonably-sized three-bet and then call a push/four-bet because I think this really narrows his range to almost exclusively hands that beat us so, as I say, I'd rather call or do something weird like min-raise and keep his range nice and wide and stack off accordingly depending on bet-size and timing, fourth and fifth street. FWIW, I'd suggest that hands like this are trickier for HSMTT players because the ranges are so random and often totally unconnected to the board and what we're representing. I'm pretty sure, however, that he will make way bigger mistakes here, both in terms of telegraphing his holding and getting it in behind, if you three-bet really small. And I'm also sure that, in the Million, OPR-ing villain is somewhat essential.

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Registrar, minreraising here might induce him to do sillier things. In that he might decide to try and bluff air a slightly increased percentage of the time.

But there are going to be a lot of one pair + hands here that he is happy to call a 3 bet with on the flop and find difficult to put down on the turn and river. Whatever re - raise we make probably will not affect his range for actively wanting to get it in that much. If he is the type of player to go broke with two pair here he is going broke no matter what size you 3 bet to.

I'm just concerned that min - reraising is going to cost us value from a lot of hands that he wants to call down with here. And, considering that there are plenty of action killer turns cards we could see peel, I much prefer to get more money in on the flop.

Finally, in practice I would OPR him aswell. However, what you drag out of that can be misleading a lot of the time. There are a lot of cash guys that only show up for a few tournaments evry so often on a Sunday and have bad figures in terms of ROI - but are better at poker than me or you. The times it gives a crystal clear indication of whether someone is bad or good are rare in my experience.