help settle debate on timing tells

g-p · #1 10-20-2007, 07:13 PM

ok so this hand just happened and was talking about it with someone

No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($2301.91)
Button ($2225)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Button raises to $35, Hero raises to $120, Button calls $85.

Flop: ($240) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $200, Button calls $200.

Turn: ($640) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $520, Button calls $520.

River: ($1680) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets 1461.91 

they thought a while before calling turn. i pushed because i figured this mean they didnt really like their hand (like maybe they had 68 and were counting odds?). on the other hand, when a bet is on someone people usually say the person is weighing his options of calling vs raising, which would mean the person probably has a strong hand, i would think.

the opponent wasn't spectacular or anything, so no idea if he is trying to level me with time use.

any thoughts on bluffing by using timing tells?? ty

easycall · #2 10-20-2007, 07:56 PM

as a general rule, quick calls from a villain mean they want to get to showdown, or free card.

I'm much more apt to dbl barrel a turn, or 3rd barrel if I'm quick called.

If he takes his time, I generally think he has a strong hand and is thinking of best way to get value, or what have you...before he makes his action.

Of course, eventual reads and [censored] change this some...

but that's my general rule of hu. Quick call = weak hand, drawing hand, wants free showdown. Delay call = strongish hand, made hand, etc.

I've played a lot of HU, but this last summer I've really noticed this more/payed more attention to... and put in the most amount of hands I have at hu play, near 160k.

trambopoline · #3 10-20-2007, 08:27 PM

I wouldnt put too much stock into timing tells. Its too easy for people to be in other hands on other tables, getting the doorbell, going to the bathroom etc. Although Id agree that generally a quick call is weaker than if he took his time then called. Not a fan of your riverplay btw. Expect to get looked up by KQ or something similiar. The double call shows to me that his hand has good showdown value because its rare for him to show up with a draw here. I think its very optimistic to hope he has 68 here.

KexChoklad123 · #4 10-20-2007, 08:28 PM

Reversed timing tells are so undervalued IMO. I started to think about this some year ago and feel I have had great success using it. When I take a line that screams value and still get called I always think if I might have messed up the timing of my bets, obviously if I was looking for a fold. I used to feel it was very difficult to think about my own timing tells while playing but I worked on it and feel it makes a difference.

/Kex

SlowHabit · #5 10-20-2007, 08:33 PM

Who cares. The river is a bad card for you to bluff after him calling that turn bet.

g-p · #6 10-20-2007, 08:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Who cares. The river is a bad card for you to bluff after him calling that turn bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
yea was hoping he realized it was a bad card to bluff so he would think i couldnt be bluffing

SlowHabit · #7 10-20-2007, 08:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who cares. The river is a bad card for you to bluff after him calling that turn bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
yea was hoping he realized it was a bad card to bluff so he would think i couldnt be bluffing

[/ QUOTE ]
Him folding KQ or better with your sexy image?

Good luck [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

BobboFitos · #8 10-20-2007, 08:42 PM

put him on 68 and check call his ass.

EmpireMaker2 · #9 10-20-2007, 08:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
put him on 68 and check call his ass.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL such a funny post for a gp hero thread

nath · #10 10-20-2007, 08:57 PM

timing tells' meaning and reliability vary with each person, and since you're the one playing the match, you're gonna have to interpret his. trust yourself and you'll be fine.