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  #11  
Old 09-28-2007, 12:13 PM
blumpkin blumpkin is offline
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Default Re: omg why why why

i really don't think i can call the river...

but the real question is: is my river value bet too thin?
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  #12  
Old 09-28-2007, 12:30 PM
howzit howzit is offline
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Default Re: omg why why why

[ QUOTE ]


but the real question is: is my river value bet too thin?

[/ QUOTE ]

i can't help but think this question is coming from results-oriented thoughts.

because this is NEVER a bluff or if it is it's in my opinion way less often then 17:1, i think the truly correct play would be able to bet/fold.

helps to have a plan before clicking the bet button.

btw, i'm sorry this happened to you. hahaha.
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  #13  
Old 09-28-2007, 12:52 PM
MRBAA MRBAA is offline
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Default Re: omg why why why

Well, I can't bet the river here if I plan to fold to a raise. The pot is just too big. As we go to the river, I am planning to see a showdown with trips and 15 bets in there. So it's either check call -- given that my board is scary and when raised I'm going to hate calling -- or bet for value, figuring two pair will make a crying call here lots. I personally like the bet, but can't find the fold.
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  #14  
Old 09-28-2007, 01:43 PM
blumpkin blumpkin is offline
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Default Re: omg why why why

i'm pretty sure bet/calling is torching money
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  #15  
Old 09-28-2007, 01:55 PM
howzit howzit is offline
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Default Re: omg why why why

you really think the opposition is ever bluffing here?

i guess it's subjective. . .15.8:1 is roughly 6% and my opinion is that the opponent bluffs less often than this.

as a caveat, tournaments are a little different: the difference between losing one bet and scooping a 17 bet pot is the what seperates winning and losing the whole thing so i guess you can call based on that.
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  #16  
Old 09-28-2007, 02:05 PM
jbrennen jbrennen is offline
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Default Re: omg why why why

Is your opponent capable of a river C/R bluff?

This hand reminds me of the Sklansky quote about not betting/raising if a raise/reraise would make you ill...
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  #17  
Old 09-28-2007, 02:19 PM
SGspecial SGspecial is offline
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Default Re: omg why why why

[ QUOTE ]
Is your opponent capable of a river C/R bluff?

This hand reminds me of the Sklansky quote about not betting/raising if a raise/reraise would make you ill...

[/ QUOTE ]
The other side of the coin is that if he wasn't capable of this kind of bluff before, have you now made him (or other villains at the table) capable with your b/f line? Next time he has a worse 2pr on 6th st and misses his 4 outer you may find out.
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  #18  
Old 09-28-2007, 02:56 PM
jbrennen jbrennen is offline
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Default Re: omg why why why

[ QUOTE ]
The other side of the coin is that if he wasn't capable of this kind of bluff before, have you now made him (or other villains at the table) capable with your b/f line?

[/ QUOTE ]

So if you're going to fold, at least say something like, "four to a flush on 4th street, end up with nothing but King high... I can't even beat your board, take it."
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  #19  
Old 09-28-2007, 02:58 PM
cgrohman cgrohman is offline
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Default Re: omg why why why

You just have to bet. Too many 2 pair combinations will call.
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  #20  
Old 09-28-2007, 05:11 PM
Brocktoon Brocktoon is offline
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Default Re: omg why why why

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The other side of the coin is that if he wasn't capable of this kind of bluff before, have you now made him (or other villains at the table) capable with your b/f line?

[/ QUOTE ]

So if you're going to fold, at least say something like, "four to a flush on 4th street, end up with nothing but King high... I can't even beat your board, take it."

[/ QUOTE ]

Or you simply make this the last time at this table/tournament you fold to a river raise in a big pot with a decent hand. It just changes the likelyhood of a late street bluff for the immediate future, which is fine as long as you adjust for it.

FWIW I think the OPs hand was played perfectly. Despite the fact that its hard to bet/muck 3 kings I don't even think its really that debatable considering the boards.
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