Really, really, really thin value vs Samo

sauce123 · #1 09-24-2007, 01:35 PM

in general I'm pretty sure his perception of me is I bluff/squeeze a lot. the last important pot we played together was this one:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $20 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($3539)
SB ($4009)
BB ($2000)
UTG ($2324.50)
Hero ($2580)
CO ($965.60)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $70, CO raises to $120, Button calls $120, 2 folds, Hero calls $50.

Flop: ($390) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $100, Button calls $100, Hero calls $100.

Turn: ($690) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, Button checks.

River: ($690) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $360, CO folds, Button calls $360.

Final Pot: $1410

he called down with 77

I thought my small river overbet here was slightly better than check/folding or check/calling

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $20 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($2176)
SB ($5287.50)
BB ($2744)
UTG ($1188)
Hero ($2967)
CO ($2026.70)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $70, 1 fold, Button calls $70, 1 fold, BB calls $50.

Flop: ($220) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $160, Button calls $160, BB folds.

Turn: ($540) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($540) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $620,

Ship Ship McGipp · #2 09-24-2007, 01:41 PM

i hate your river bet size, if anything you might make him fold a better hand since this would be such a terrible line to bluff with, unless he knows you're on that level, and there's more meta going on than anyone can fathom

Redgrape · #3 09-24-2007, 01:43 PM

Your vbetting such a thin range here I don't like it. Whether or not most of his range resides in hands worse than TT is hard to tell.

EC10 · #4 09-24-2007, 01:47 PM

you should swap the river bet sizing for the two hands

sauce123 · #5 09-24-2007, 01:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you should swap the river bet sizing for the two hands

[/ QUOTE ]

note: i am pretty bad at poker

jfish · #6 09-24-2007, 02:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you should swap the river bet sizing for the two hands

[/ QUOTE ]

sauce123 · #7 09-24-2007, 02:05 PM

ok so before/after flaming heres my reasoning- Samo is calling in position with a ton of hands including all pairs, big unpaired cards, various SCs and Axs.

After he checks turn I feel like his range is pretty balanced on the river, and my hand is slightly underrepped. the problem i see with any other line is that hes good enough to V-bet/bluff pretty optimally here, so I don't think I can call a bet greater than or = to 2/3 pot (ish).

Again, I could make a smaller vbet of like 280-380 or so, but I still feel like this leads to the same problem where he bluffraises/value raises/ folds/calls enough hands so I can't play even close to optimally.

So I make a small overbet which he hasnt seen before and so is unlikely to bluff over, and I think the majority of his range is made of bluffcatchers/ smaller A combos- and I think he calls this bet enough of the time to show slight +ev...

I tend to overthink [censored] tho.

sauce123 · #8 09-24-2007, 02:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ok so before/after flaming heres my reasoning- Samo is calling in position with a ton of hands including all pairs, big unpaired cards, various SCs and Axs.

After he checks turn I feel like his range is pretty balanced on the river, and my hand is slightly underrepped. the problem i see with any other line is that hes good enough to V-bet/bluff pretty optimally here, so I don't think I can call a bet greater than or = to 2/3 pot (ish).

Again, I could make a smaller vbet of like 280-380 or so, but I still feel like this leads to the same problem where he bluffraises/value raises/ folds/calls enough hands so I can't play even close to optimally.

So I make a small overbet which he hasnt seen before and so is unlikely to bluff over, and I think the majority of his range is made of bluffcatchers/ smaller A combos- and I think he calls this bet enough of the time to show slight +ev...

I tend to overthink [censored] tho.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't explicitly say this, but I believe an overbet will widen his calling range (and not just put raising hands into the call category- but get hands hed fold to call) as opposed to any other betsize.

Kala1928 · #9 09-24-2007, 02:52 PM

Betting 270$ on the river is so much better than betting 620$. Unless your opponent is a retard, which he isnt.

SlowHabit · #10 09-24-2007, 03:07 PM

I like your bet.