New to OOT. Have custody of my nephews. LONG

[DeuceKicker]

I wrote a bunch of crap about having serious man-to-man talks with your nephews, about long-term consequences, turning points, yadda yadda yadda. But I keep thinking about my 3-yo daughter lying dead in a ditch because some stupid kids thought it would be fun to throw rocks at cars, and now all I want to do is yell at you. WTF??? You let him go off by himself and he does something that could easily KILL SOMEONE, and the next time he wants to go you let him?

And I agree with the others; wife > nephews.

[istewart]

Console yourself with the fact that if NT had any other job, you would be banned.

[RoundGuy]

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so I will give you some serious advice...get your belt out and use it on the 17 years, the 12 year and your wife when necessary so everyone knows who the man in the house is.

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I've got 8 inches of seriousness for you. Bend over and let me show you who the man is....

[Boris]

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You sound like a nice guy who cares about his family even though they may be a bunch of [censored] ups so I will give you some serious advice. Tell your wife to stop being so selfish, sometimes there are things in this world that are out of her control. This is one of those times. You have a responsibility to these children at this point and putting them back into foster care would be wrong and possibly/probably detrimental to their well being. I am actually surprised anyone could be married to a woman who is so selfish that she wants to put these children back into foster care. I also think children need to be slapped on occasion if they misbehave so they know there are consequences. What you should do is get your belt out and use it on the 17 years, the 12 year and your wife when necessary so everyone knows who the man in the house is. All problems solved.

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QFMFT

[Fast Food Knight]

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Console yourself with the fact that if NT had any other job, you would be banned.

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LOL

[EddieMoney22]

Wow! I didn't expect this kind of response so fast. I will try to respond to all responses.

Vyse, I was spanked growing up and it didn't hurt me at all in life. I didn't say I don't believe in it. What happned was the kids spoke with a law guardian who asked them about there grandmother (my mother) and they were like no way do we want to live with her she spanks us. And believe me you know it when you get spanked by her lol. But she does not beat you ( I think it's a huge differnce) The law guardian never asked us about spanking.

Paul B., Round Guy and Fast Food - I Hear what you are all saying this is a very unfair spot to put my wife in. I knew coming into the marriage that she didn't want kids. Even though I did I was and am able to deal with that. But to give up my nephews into fostercare is very tough and Im not sure how I would deal with it after the fact.

42 - The 17 year old just turned 17 on Sept. 24th. So it's another year.

NT - I am in NY, Rochester NY. Right now we do get medicad for them from the system and some cash for food and clothing. That part to me is not the issue though I don't need the money from the system (although I didn't realize how much two growing boys can eat and how fast they ruin there clothes lol). I have dealt with the "system" alot in the last 16 months and your right they do not seem to tell you everything.

I don't know I really don't want them to go to foster care. and I really don't want to lose my wife. I hope my Mother's petition will go through this time. The social work basically told us they are not worried about the 15 or 17 year old (basically for the same reasons you explained above). They really are concered for the 12 year old as he would then be placed in foster care alone.

[diddyeinstein]

That's tough OP.

Do you think that putting the children in foster care, however much you might not like the idea, could help accelerate the mom's recovery from her drug habit?

I can't begin to account for her actions, but there is a bit of a safety blanket for her knowing that the children are in good hands regardless of whether she makes it through rehab, relapses, or whatever. With the children in state custody, that certainty is removed so it might help impel her to getting and staying clean.

No real advice, but despite your feelings I would suggest that you don't endanger your marriage because your sister can't stay sober to take care of her kids. However, that is your decision, and I can completely see your side.

On a side note, have the kids been to counseling?

[NT!]

The boys should be able to get behavioral therapy, counseling, supervised visits w/ Mom, all sorts of stuff that would almost certainly help to stabilize them. Caseworkers tend to be ridiculously overworked and undertrained (some of them are lousy but it's usually not their fault), but if you advocate for yourselves you can get access to a lot of help.

There are foster parent groups that meet to discuss these kinds of issues as well, share strategies, give mutual support, etc. Your wife might find this useful, or maybe not. Worth suggesting either way.

The boys are going to pick up on the tension between you and your wife, too. Kids are very perceptive about this kind of thing, even if they don't say anything or don't even seem to be aware of it.

Involve them in the decision. Talk to them about what the options are and what they would prefer. They may have said they don't want to go to grandma before, but now that they have been in care for a while and may be faced with going to a stranger, they may feel differently. Try to be prepared for court and have a first, second and third plan just in case. Make sure they know that you care about them and will be a resource for them no matter what happens, even if they have to go.

It's really important for your wife to hear how much you mean to her and that you understand her concerns. Over and over. And over. She is probably feeling trapped and overwhelmed. The worst thing, in that scenario, is not having anywhere you feel you can turn.

[NT!]

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I can't begin to account for her actions, but there is a bit of a safety blanket for her knowing that the children are in good hands regardless of whether she makes it through rehab, relapses, or whatever. With the children in state custody, that certainty is removed so it might help impel her to getting and staying clean.

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I just want to point out that, unfortunately, this isn't true. She is coming up on a deadline where the state is going to be required by law to initiate a termination of parental rights against her, if I read the dates in the OP correctly. It really doesn't matter what happens with rehab this time around, the foster care system is really [censored] up in this regard and she is out of time.

[EddieMoney22]

Deuce - I understand your point but he got in trouble the first week he was with us. He was never in trouble before (not that I was around that often) He was staying over my sister's house ( not his mother) So I have no reason to think he would do this. After than he was not allowed in buffalo again for a long time. I was about 6 months later after consuling (which he still attends) Many talks with us about how stupid it was how someone could have been killed. After that we started letting him go again. He went about 6 months always checking in (with both my sister and Me) and he was fine. We thought he finally grew up and liked living with us so he wasn't out looking for trouble. It's not the way you make it sound. He got arrested June 30th and we let him go back to buffalo for the 4th of July. Again believe me I do understand where you are coming from I think what if it was My wife or another family memeber who was driving and some kid threw a rock in the road and they were killed.

Diddy - Yes I do believe that she uses us as a safety blanket. I didn't know and I don't think she is aware of what NT is saying about the Timeframe. I honestly don't know if that would help her though. Right now she seems really stuck in a rut and nothing seems to help her.

NT - you really do have alot of good advice I do appreciate it. I have had talks with both of my nephews. I have talked to them seperate and together. I explained how hard things are for all of us. I told them about the possibility of foster care or there grandmother and sometimes I think it goes in one ear and out the other. But who knows as you said kids can sense the tension even though they don't talk about it.

As far as some of the other comments up to this point. Some really make me laugh no matter how foolish they sound so go ahead and keep going. I knew I would get some of those responses on a public forum. Heck sometimes reading this board I want to respond to someone with some pretty funny oneliners as well.