Raising Small Pkt Pairs discussion

[oakrdrzfan]

I often raise small pocket pairs when first to act. Others in the forum advocate this as well. In this instance (results don't matter)I did not. When reviewing the hand after my session (always for big hands for winners and losers), I wondered if I would have won this pot had I raised it preflop. Say I raise to $1 and the Villain correctly re-raises to $3 or $4, then I fold my pkt 4s and never stack this hand. I know that on the contrary, that you pick up a lot of hands by raising pf in these situations, but does it overcome the times you get forced out by a big re-raise. Discussion point: by raising small pkt pairs early do you lose opportunity to stack AA,KK since they re-raise you out of the pot???



Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 10 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $24.40
BB: $5.25
UTG: $29.38
UTG+1: $27.03
Hero (UTG+2): $31.26
MP1: $10.60
MP2: $13.95
MP3: $17.95
CO: $4.99
BTN: $5.22

Preflop: Hero is dealt 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (10 Players)
2 folds, Hero calls $0.25, 5 folds, <font color="red">SB raises to $1.50</font>, BB folds, Hero calls $1.25

Flop: ($3.25) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $1.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $3.00</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $9.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $23.50</font>, SB calls all-in for $13.90
Uncalled bet of $0.60 returned to Hero

Turn: ($49.05) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

River: ($49.05) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

Pot Size: $49.05 ($2.45 Rake)

SB had A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (two pairs, Aces and Sixes) and LOST (-$24.40)
Hero had 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (a full house, Fours full of Sixes) and WON (+$22.20)

[the_rookie]

I just call the flop and then call the push on the turn. Villian may get away with your push.

[CaptainSubtext]

In early position I like to limp with small pp. I hope to see a flop cheaply in order to hit a set. If I'm raised preflop I can cheaply let the hand go. You only hit a set about 11% of the time, so if you call a raise, you're paying too much of a price to see the flop and hitting your set.

In MP and LP I open-raise with my small PP to win the blinds preflop or with a C-bet after the flop.

With limpers I call in MP and LP. If they are weak tight, maybe I would raise.

Just my thoughts.

[diebitter]

If you're deep and villain is deep, it's fine to call a raise with any pp (some prefer only say 66 upwards). Usually you want something like 12/1 or better on a standard villain, but higher on tough players, looser on players you can stack when they have stuff like AA and TPTK


Solution: raise smaller pp on tight tables and limp smaller pp on loose tables. (As ever, on levels/tables with thinking players, you need to mix this up in terms of default response, and in terms of what you sometimes do with big hands eg sometimes limp AA on looser tables)

You raise on tight tables to:
1) build the pot so if you hit you can more easily build pot even bigger.
2) Steal the blinds
3) Set yourself up as representing a big hand, so even if you don't hit, a c-bet will often take it if HU.

Overall, there's profit there even if you don't hit your set.

You limp on loose tables because:
1) you'll often get raised, and you can call a raise with small pp profitably , but usually not a reraise
2) You'll often get action postflop when you bet out, even on an unraised flop.

Usually, the profit from a loose table is only if you hit.

[HesseJam]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're deep and villain is deep, it's fine to call a raise with any pp (some prefer only say 66 upwards). Usually you want something like 12/1 or better on a standard villain, but higher on tough players, looser on players you can stack when they have stuff like AA and TPTK


Solution: raise smaller pp on tight tables and limp smaller pp on loose tables. (As ever, on levels/tables with thinking players, you need to mix this up in terms of default response, and in terms of what you sometimes do with big hands eg sometimes limp AA on looser tables)

You raise on tight tables to:
1) build the pot so if you hit you can more easily build pot even bigger.
2) Steal the blinds
3) Set yourself up as representing a big hand, so even if you don't hit, a c-bet will often take it if HU.

Overall, there's profit there even if you don't hit your set.

You limp on loose tables because:
1) you'll often get raised, and you can call a raise with small pp profitably , but usually not a reraise
2) You'll often get action postflop when you bet out, even on an unraised flop.

Usually, the profit from a loose table is only if you hit.

[/ QUOTE ]


Perfect! Should conclude the dicussion once and for all!

[CaptainSubtext]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're deep and villain is deep, it's fine to call a raise with any pp (some prefer only say 66 upwards). Usually you want something like 12/1 or better on a standard villain, but higher on tough players, looser on players you can stack when they have stuff like AA and TPTK


Solution: raise smaller pp on tight tables and limp smaller pp on loose tables. (As ever, on levels/tables with thinking players, you need to mix this up in terms of default response, and in terms of what you sometimes do with big hands eg sometimes limp AA on looser tables)

You raise on tight tables to:
1) build the pot so if you hit you can more easily build pot even bigger.
2) Steal the blinds
3) Set yourself up as representing a big hand, so even if you don't hit, a c-bet will often take it if HU.

Overall, there's profit there even if you don't hit your set.

You limp on loose tables because:
1) you'll often get raised, and you can call a raise with small pp profitably , but usually not a reraise
2) You'll often get action postflop when you bet out, even on an unraised flop.

Usually, the profit from a loose table is only if you hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really good advice! Tnx.

[diebitter]

I forgot to say, it's usually worth raising small pairs in LP on loose tables, unless you have aggro blinds.

[Renton]

raise them. winning millions of pots on the flop is &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; flopping sets vs AA once in a blue moon.

[diebitter]

[ QUOTE ]
raise them. winning millions of pots on the flop is &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; flopping sets vs AA once in a blue moon.

[/ QUOTE ]

at nl200+ maybe. Below, you make more money from stacking players with your sets.

[Renton]

yeah, and at below people don't 3bet a lot