calling preflop 4bets

[Troll_Inc]

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As a starter, the pot will be $942 and you'll have $597 left behind. So, you'll need 597/(942+597+597) = 0.28 equity to call.


So it should be profitable, if he has random AAxx and (more importantly) you can correctly determine when you have odds to call. I think it's fairly likely that you will sometimes be calling when you don't actually have the odds,

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I think it might be kind of hard to find stuff in the 25-30% equity range?

An inside straight draw it 32%:
http://www.propokertools.com/simulator/s...amp;h4=&h5=

Of course this situation is much better for the aces hand. I think the 3 bet OOP with a drawing hand is bad. Why not save that for when you have position? Then it is just a 3 bet vs his aces and a much more profitable situation.

[Silent A]

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For instance, are you calling if two diamonds come? What about 562r?

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Hero simply has to call both these flops without even blinking.

[Silent A]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it might be kind of hard to find stuff in the 25-30% equity range?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's 20 to 25% thats really common. 25 to 30 is pretty rare.

For example, flopping 3 to a straight plus a backdoor flush draw, with no A on the board ...

board: 6d3c2h
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
8d7d7h8s 23.92% 143,422 149
AA** 76.08% 456,429 149

[JackInDaCrak]

I would like calling this preflop better without a pair in my hand, let alone 2 pairs.

[Silent A]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think it's fairly likely that you will sometimes be calling when you don't actually have the odds,

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I think it might be kind of hard to find stuff in the 25-30% equity range?

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I guess you were referring to this. The problem isn't calling in the 25-30% range, it's calling in the 20% and less range. These will come up when hero flops a dominated flush draw (or a dominated flush). Hero has to call these because they will be live more than 50% of the time (probably about 65+%).

But they aren't common enough to be too concerned about.

[Silent A]

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I would like calling this preflop better without a pair in my hand, let alone 2 pairs.

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The key is that the pair is connected. This makes a big difference. TT55ss would be a clear fold.

[cmyr]

yes, TT55 wouldn't be a 3bet, either. Nor would many single-pair hands. connected pair hands, however, play almost as well as runs in this sort of situation, and often much better when it gets to be 3way+.


Very good stuff Silent, I was hoping when I posted this that you might chime in, and i appreciate your analysis. I did call the raise, and i knew in my gut it was justified, but i'd never seen the numbers properly run.

[Silent A]

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yeah, but if villain raises here like 15 % of the time and has aces about 3% of the time, he will be reraised 20% of the time and has to gain a lot of equity in case he isnt reraised.

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The 2-bet cost Hero $105 and he can expect a $50 profit (on just the call) on the 20% of the time that villain wakes up with AAxx. In order to make a profit with this play he needs to have an EV of less than $15 the other 80% of the time. If Hero believes he's a better player post-flop this won't be too hard to achieve since his hand is so well disguised, and he'll be in MP on the flop - so his position isn't too bad.

[Lucky Clubs]

Next step... what was the flop?

[Silent A]

[ QUOTE ]
Next step... what was the flop?

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Flop = 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero bets 597 all-in, villain calls

Turn = J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
River = Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero shows 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] for Straight Flush Seven to Jack
Villain shows A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] for Royal Flush