New heads up poker game - best strategy?

[dfan]

At a recent home poker game, a few of us were early and sat down at the table. It happened that 4 of us were on one side of the table and the host, we'll call him Jim, sat on the opposite side. A joke was made about the four of us teaming up against Jim, and Jim (who is forever telling us what a gifted player he is) said jokingly, "Hell you could all combine your cards and I could still beat you." We laughed and said something to the effect of "yeah right!" After a bit of bantering he made the following serious offer: He would play me heads-up, with me getting dealt 8 cards from which I could choose my 2 card starting hand. He would play his regularly dealt hand but I had to give him 2 to 1 on the money. For example, if he bet $25 and I called and lost I had to pay him $50.

I accepted his challenge and we played. This was 1/2 NL, and we each had a stack of $180.

Here are the questions:
1) Which side of this proposition would you take - mine or Jim's.
2) What strategy would you use if you were me in this game? (starting hand selection, how much to bet preflop (most important), etc.).
3) What is Jims best strategy?

BTW, we played two sessions of this. I'll post how I came out and what my strategies were after I hear the comments of others.

[jay_shark]

1) I would take yours . You can do a lot of damage with 8 cards , but I guess it depends on the relative difference in skill level .

2) Ideally in heads up you would pick cards that are higher in rank as drawing cards become less valuable . Middle and high pocket pairs are extremely valuable and should have preference over almost all non -paired hands .

3) Jim's best strategy is to not play the game .

[BrianBigNFun]

I assume that the hand has to be chosen preflop and cannot be changed after the cards come out?

[riverspecialist]

the rules werent totally clear. it sounds like u get 8 cards, pick 2 and discard 6.
anyone who plays heads up would obviously take jims side. starting hands dont really matter that much in heads up no limit and you couldnt play a strictly "high card" strategy because it would be to readble. getting 2:1 on ur money is a better edge.

if u somehow meant u get and 8 card hand from which u can only use up to 2 of at showdown, then you have the better deal.

A more fair game would be to shrink the 8 card hand to 4 and u get to keep them all until showdown like in omaha.

another one would be to keep the original game of being dealt 8(keep2) and also u always get to be all time button.

curious to hear the results u got

[dfan]

[ QUOTE ]
the rules werent totally clear. it sounds like u get 8 cards, pick 2 and discard 6.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry about the ambiguity. Yes, that was the rule.

[holdem2000]

It would take me a while to rigorously pick an opinion, but intuitively I think Jim has an edge in this game. Jim gets to bully you to a ridiculous extent... if he's 35% to win a pot it's +EV for him to be allin. If you bet the pot (that is, the amount of your stack you put in is equal to the pot) on the turn, he's being offered 4:1 on his money... you can't take him off of a real draw. Worse, if he's any better than a 2:1 dog he can just push his draw and actually want you to call.

If the stacks were a bit smaller it might be +EV for him to push blind every hand.

[Mook]

[ QUOTE ]
If the stacks were a bit smaller it might be +EV for him to push blind every hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
The stacks are pretty small ... remember, OP's laying 2:1, so Jim's effective stack is only $90, or 45 BB. I'm going to try to work out the math, but I'm almost positive that Jim could be +EV in this game just by pushing every hand.

Mook

[holdem2000]

The stacks aren't small enough. The 8-card player gets dealt a hand with exactly 2 aces in it 9.78% of the time. If Jim pushes every hand and OP only calls when his starting hand held exactly two aces (though he actually calls with more like 77+, AQs+), then OP still averages a profit of about $3.09/hand even when on the big blind (and about a dollar more per small blind).

In fact, if Jim takes a push every hand preflop strategy then OP wins EV on the BB by just calling with aces as long as the stacks are at least $67 each... since OP can actually call with a lot more hands, the push any two strategy for Jim wont be profitable until the stacks are very small - smaller than I first realized.

Edit: When I say stacks of at least $67 each, I mean OP's stack is at least $67, Jim's can be half of that.

[dfan]

[ QUOTE ]

curious to hear the results u got

[/ QUOTE ]

Well the first session I was feeling my way toward a profitable strategy. About 2/3rds of the time I had a big pair, say QQ+, and raised preflop from $7-$12. However Jim called some of these and postflop play was very difficult. A couple of mistakes by me put me in the hole pretty quick.

So before the second session I thought about optimal strategies a bit. I realized Jim could not call big preflop raises and that he wouldn't get KK+ often enough to counter me stealing his blinds. Also I decided I would play again with no more than a stack of $100. We played the second session and each hand I either limped, folded, or (mostly) raised to $20-$25. When I was able to limp in, I played for set value alone. I folded crap hands (below 88+). Jim tried various counter measures, but he couldn't find an effective one (mainly because he essentially had to give up the blinds every time I raised pf) and I won back everything I lost the first session + a bit more.

I think the strategy I came up with informally fits well with the math-based strategies derived above (My strategy was very similar to Holdem2000's midsize stack strategy. I think his analysis is spot-on about how optimal strategies change as stack sizes change). And I'm pretty sure my side had the advantage when I was allowed to play with a 50bb stack. With a 100bb stack, I still don't know who has the advantage.

[dfan]

Follow-up question:
You are getting the 8 cards. If the following is your hand, which two cards do you play?

A,A,A,Q,Q,x,x,x