PLO 100 - scare card with flopped top set, standard?

Elrazor · #1 07-13-2007, 11:39 AM

Not much information on Villlan, but he is fairly agro running 55/20/2.25 over 45 hands. i am 29/9/2.5 in this session - not much 6 seater experience are these numbers ok?

also is my line of checking so he can fire at his missed flush draw ok?

Cryptologic
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero raises to $5, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($20.5, 4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $22, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($64.5, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $66, Hero raises all-in $89, UTG+1 calls.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($242.5, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $242.5)

Results in White: Mollillom showed [9c Qc 8h Ah] and won ($241) with A Straight, Ace high - is his play standard to call with a Q high flush draw and gutshot??
Final pot: $242.5

TrainHardDieHard · #2 07-13-2007, 12:57 PM

How can you be so sure he's firing at a missed flush draw?

CrushinFelt · #3 07-13-2007, 01:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Not much information on Villlan, but he is fairly agro running 55/20/2.25 over 45 hands. i am 29/9/2.5 in this session - not much 6 seater experience are these numbers ok?

also is my line of checking so he can TAKE A FREE CARD FOR his missed flush draw ok?

Cryptologic
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero raises to $5, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($20.5, 4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $22, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($64.5, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $66, Hero raises all-in $89, UTG+1 calls.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($242.5, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $242.5)

Results in White: Mollillom showed [9c Qc 8h Ah] and won ($241) with A Straight, Ace high - is his play standard to call with a Q high flush draw and gutshot??
Final pot: $242.5

[/ QUOTE ]

his play is stnd, your play is bad because you're never folding to his bet and you are giving him a chance at a free card

fringsrache · #4 07-13-2007, 01:09 PM

Crushinfelt is it always standard to get it in with topset in this spot eventhough the T completed all str8-draws?
would u ever even consider c/f ?

MikeSmith · #5 07-13-2007, 02:19 PM

i dont like raising preflop utg with pretty much anything unless you look like a lag, easy check fold on the turn

CrushinFelt · #6 07-13-2007, 02:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Crushinfelt is it always standard to get it in with topset in this spot eventhough the T completed all str8-draws?
would u ever even consider c/f ?

[/ QUOTE ]

meh, if I had a very solid read then ... maybe, but still probably not. First of all because I wouldn't be checking this very often, and if I did check it's because I thought the opponent would shove a large percent of the time just off the weakness.

To c/f here very often is extremely nitty and will definitely cost you value in the long run (given these stacksizes) because against fairly aggro opponents; if you do check, people will fire with a wide range.

However, the reason for my first post against a check as a standard play is because I think more often this will get checked behind because neither the open-ended straight nor the flush got there which are the two most obvious draws.

Elrazor · #7 07-13-2007, 03:55 PM

Thanks for all responses to this thread

[ QUOTE ]
meh, if I had a very solid read then ... maybe, but still probably not. First of all because I wouldn't be checking this very often, and if I did check it's because I thought the opponent would shove a large percent of the time just off the weakness.

To c/f here very often is extremely nitty and will definitely cost you value in the long run (given these stacksizes) because against fairly aggro opponents; if you do check, people will fire with a wide range.

However, the reason for my first post against a check as a standard play is because I think more often this will get checked behind because neither the open-ended straight nor the flush got there which are the two most obvious draws.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is exacly why i checked the turn - my general feeling was this guy was here to gamble given his play so far - he had bought in short at both this and another table and at the other table his $40 buy in lasted 4 hands before he stacked off with KKxx pre and didnt reload.

seeing as C/f isn't really an option (against this player at least, some players i play againt its an automatic check fold) surely its better to give him an opertunity to bluff the scare card, rather than betting where you are only going to get called/repotted if you are beat by which time you are pot comitted anyway?

donkeykong2 · #8 07-13-2007, 04:34 PM

it depends on the frequency he tries to bluff you, the main point for betting is that you want to price out the flush draw and not to get called by anything. i dont know where the break even point exactly is, but i think villain doesnt have to check his flush draw extremely often to make checking bad here. if villain never or rarely does this your line is better obviously.

chucky · #9 07-13-2007, 01:03 PM

Yes 11 out calls of pot with 2nd nfd are not totally unreasonable. That said, I don't like turn checkraise. Most good players that call your flop bet here are going to have a combo draw. Which means that tens, queens, and aces are scare cards. If he is post flop aggro, then let him try and steal the pot on the flop and come over the top.

nuclear500 · #10 07-13-2007, 01:05 PM

He called the flop with a gutshot club straight flush draw and backdoor nut flush draw AND Ace high straight draw. I think the flop call by him was fine.