Flop Decision - Omaha H/L

[green100b]

Hand 1 :You are on the button in a 5 handed game with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]-Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]-J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]-10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Open with a raise. Called by SB and BB. Flop comes 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB leads and BB calls. What is your move?

Hand 2
Same holdings but flop comes.

2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]King [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Same action to you. What's your move?

ASSUME IN BOTH - Opponents are typical players. not loose and crazy.

[jlocdog]

Hand 1 I call.

Hand 2 I call.

In both spots closing the action on the cheapstreet with 8sb's in the pot should make a call a no brainer. Put yourself in the BB and now it steers more toward a fold I feel (obviously the second one moreso then the first).

[BlueBear]

Calling is automatic.

[green100b]

I understand why it looks at first blush to be an auto-call. But....I don't believe in auto-anything.
H
ow many hearts that hit really win you anything more than half the pot? You have 3 of the high hearts. What do you think SB and BB have?

[RobNottsUk]

I thought the typical players were pretty loose!

Presumably you're raising on the button because,

Either /
a) They may fold
b) If you don't, one of them will

It looks a little to them, that you probably have a counter-feited Lo, so raising the flop probably won't have much fold equity on turn (or even gain you a Free card), and you only have 1 clean out to scoop plus b'door str8 draw. You have 1 out to counterfeiting A3, the 3h.

Raising looks bad, calling even worse, so fold in both spots. Even if the SB likes to probe bet flops, you don't have the right kind of hand to sort'em on this board.

[green100b]

Interesting thoughts. Don't i have 2 guaranteed scoop outs. K or 10 of hearts?

[TheCount212]

With two low cards on the board you're looking at a probable split in each case. A heart wins you half the pot so long as the board doesn't pair. Hand 1 you have a nut flush draw + OESD, so a raise would be appropriate. Hand 2 you have a nut flush draw, so a call would be more like it.

[green100b]

I think we just have a gutshot unless i posted something incorrectly. I am actually curious for Buzz's calculations. Hand 2 was the actualy hand played. I figured the SB lead with a decent high and an A3 and that the BB might be calling with a low draw and flush draw. In either case I felt i would likely split the pot best case and needed to draw to split. So I folded on the flop. Turn came 4 of hearts and river came King pairing the board. The SB scooped with an A-2-3-K. Despite the results being favorable for my fold I am wondering if my analysis was off. I figured most hearts that came only game me 50% on each additional investment.

[Grandma_DOG]

Raise, I'm on the button, and can my get the river card free. If I hit, I have more in the pot and can bet the turn. Or I could bet again buying the right to a bluff on the River if nothing comes.

[green100b]

Interesting. I don't know about raising here. SB will likely reraise and your extra money is lost if BB folds. And it looks like SB has a hand since he knows i raised and is leading with some sort of hand. Many cards come on the turn that will not let a "free" card come to me.