Top Two & Gutter, 100plo

jk3a · #1 11-14-2007, 07:25 PM

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($59.85)
SB ($58.25)
Hero ($100)
UTG ($99.40)
MP ($183.65)
CO ($94.35)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $2, 1 fold, Button calls $2, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.

Flop: ($6.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $5, Button folds, Hero raises to $21, MP raises to $69.2,

Assume villain is unknown. Should I be donking the flop? Should I be folding now? I'm really not sure what the relative value of my hand is in this game.

JSmith2007 · #2 11-14-2007, 07:40 PM

I would have much rather smooth called his $5 bet. Raising puts you in situations like this, and a call to your raise allows you to have very tricky and dangerous turn cards to come. Given his minraise, he could have anything from (55) 99-AA to me. I don't know if I would call the 3-bet, but that is because I'm a pretty big nit usually and don't like to take alot of chances such as this one, especially with not many draws assuming he has a set, which I think is probable. You'd be drawing to maybe 7 outs (given 6 players in hand, relative adjustment for Ks and 9s I'll put at 4 and an adjustment of queens at 2) but we'll say 10 anyway. You'd basically have to go all in here, and I'm not sure I'm willing to with ~7 outs, likely facing middle or top set here, which even reduce your outs more.

TimberBee · #3 11-14-2007, 07:45 PM

This is soooo player dependent. I'm probably stacking off against an unknown at 100plo, but I'm not feeling too good about it. Someone chime in and say this is an easy fold please, so I can learn. And berate me hard plz k thx.

sondring · #4 11-14-2007, 07:47 PM

Against an unknown I think a fold is marginally +EV.

I like JSmith's line of calling the flop bet.

JSmith2007 · #5 11-14-2007, 08:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is soooo player dependent. I'm probably stacking off against an unknown at 100plo, but I'm not feeling too good about it. Someone chime in and say this is an easy fold please, so I can learn. And berate me hard plz k thx.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree here. It's not really an easy fold, nor is it an easy call. A very good hand to discuss really. Against an unknown minraiser, many things are possible - double suited connectors, AA-99 (maybe 88 if he's loose), unsuited connectors, a very wide range of hands. I just don't see a complete unknown playing this aggresively without a made hand. If he's doing this with an incredibly missed double suited double connector hand, he's got gall.

KexChoklad123 · #6 11-14-2007, 08:03 PM

In theory I would fold this but while playing Im just pushing. Probably a leak vs a solid player. If the board contains a flushdraw Im pushing with a smile

iggymcfly · #7 11-14-2007, 08:34 PM

C/C is the worst possible line against an unknown (other than check/fold I guess). I'd usually lead this, but a check/raise is OK too. Anyway, it's tough having no reads, but betting less than the pot, then reraising pot when raised just screams set to me and probably top set more often than the other two combined. I think your standard play should be to fold to the reraise.

If you did have a read, I think it would probably take an aggression factor close to 4 or a general read that he's really loose to make pushing over the reraise correct.

Elrazor · #8 11-14-2007, 08:35 PM

GH, i think this is really close im gonna have to sleep on it.......

ps - donk into the PFR

Hattifnatt · #9 11-14-2007, 09:17 PM

push, c/r flop is fine and better than donking imo.

crashwhips · #10 11-15-2007, 12:14 AM

I'm never folding this agaisnt an unknown. I think you'll see K9xx, KQJT, and QJT9 a a lot here, all of which you're in good shape against. This is PL100 too, so he could just be a donk and way overplaying his aces. Sometimes you'll be up against a set, but even then you have 15% equity.

Against someone really nitty or passive I might muck here, but against an unknown with top two and a gutter on a rainbow board with no straight possible, I'm going to the felt every single time for 100bb.