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  #1  
Old 11-01-2007, 03:57 PM
dtf13 dtf13 is offline
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Default I\'m at Final Table of Caesars Palace Classic. First hand.... Help!

Event 2, 1K buy-in, 263 plrs, first pays $88,400.

First hand of final Table action. I am second in Chips to Mark Seif.

Avg. Stack 80K, My Stack: 110K, Villain(3rd in chips)Stack: 95K. Seif has all the chips with 240K or so.

Blinds: 1500-3000, ante 300

I am in BB with JJ.

UTG (Villain): Limps 3000
4 seat: Limps 3000
5 seat: Limps 3000
SB: Call 1500
BB (me): JJ Raise to 23,000, I raise this much becasue at this point there is 18,000 in the pot and I would be happy to take it down.

UTG (Villain): moves all-in after limping utg for 95,000

Pot is 130K ish, 72K to call, would leave me with 15K (very short)if I call, if I fold leaves me with an average stack.

Villain was at other table when we were down to 2 tables and I have no line what-so-ever on his play other than he seems to be a very aggressive player.

What is my play? Please Help
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  #2  
Old 11-01-2007, 04:03 PM
brad2002tj brad2002tj is offline
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Default Re: I\'m at Final Table of Caesars Palace Classic. First hand.... Help!

With no reads, its a tough spot.

I push it in, hope to win a race against aq-ak.

On teh other hand, you want to stick around to heckle mark seif.
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  #3  
Old 11-01-2007, 04:04 PM
dtf13 dtf13 is offline
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Default Re: I\'m at Final Table of Caesars Palace Classic. First hand.... Help!

[ QUOTE ]
With no reads, its a tough spot.

I push it in, hope to win a race against aq-ak.

On teh other hand, you want to stick around to heckle mark seif.

[/ QUOTE ]

plus I was one seat left of Seif, best seat at the table
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  #4  
Old 11-01-2007, 04:08 PM
Todd Terry Todd Terry is offline
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Default Re: I\'m at Final Table of Caesars Palace Classic. First hand.... Help!

Fun spot. Given the stakes and the fact that it's the first hand of the day, I'd tend to weight Villain's range heavily toward AA/KK and fold.
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  #5  
Old 11-01-2007, 04:18 PM
jcm4ccc jcm4ccc is offline
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Default Re: I\'m at Final Table of Caesars Palace Classic. First hand.... Help!

[ QUOTE ]
I raise this much because at this point there is 18,000 in the pot and I would be happy to take it down.

[/ QUOTE ] right, and I'm sure that's how it appeared to the villain. So he can eliminate AA and KK from your range, maybe even QQ. Here's what you have shown him: you don't want any callers, and you've left yourself room to fold. Given that you were the BB raising 4 limpers, you could have done this with any two.

[ QUOTE ]
Villain was at other table when we were down to 2 tables and I have no line what-so-ever on his play other than he seems to be a very aggressive player

[/ QUOTE ] so call.
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  #6  
Old 11-01-2007, 04:19 PM
jcm4ccc jcm4ccc is offline
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Default Re: I\'m at Final Table of Caesars Palace Classic. First hand.... Help!

[ QUOTE ]
Fun spot. Given the stakes and the fact that it's the first hand of the day, I'd tend to weight Villain's range heavily toward AA/KK and fold.

[/ QUOTE ] i think that is what the villain is counting on.

EDIT: Now, if I had actually been in your place facing the all-in push with my JJ, I would have folded, right after peeing in my pants and crying like a little girl .
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  #7  
Old 11-01-2007, 04:34 PM
dtf13 dtf13 is offline
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Default Re: I\'m at Final Table of Caesars Palace Classic. First hand.... Help!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I raise this much because at this point there is 18,000 in the pot and I would be happy to take it down.

[/ QUOTE ] right, and I'm sure that's how it appeared to the villain. So he can eliminate AA and KK from your range, maybe even QQ. Here's what you have shown him: you don't want any callers, and you've left yourself room to fold. Given that you were the BB raising 4 limpers, you could have done this with any two.

[ QUOTE ]
Villain was at other table when we were down to 2 tables and I have no line what-so-ever on his play other than he seems to be a very aggressive player

[/ QUOTE ] so call.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was part of my thought process.

I did forget to mention 2 things:

1) When he limped in I for some reason got the feeling he was strong....still..there is no way I am checking Js, because as I said b4 I have not played with him.

2) the way he shoved all-in. Once I completed my raise it was not clear the amount I was raising, I just cut out half 1K chips and half 500 chips, and I never announced an amount. This could have looked like a steal to him, or it could have looked very strong depending on the interpretation.

He said "All-in" just as I released my last raising chip as if it was his plan.
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  #8  
Old 11-01-2007, 04:50 PM
jcm4ccc jcm4ccc is offline
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Default Re: I\'m at Final Table of Caesars Palace Classic. First hand.... Help!

[ QUOTE ]

I did forget to mention 2 things:

1) When he limped in I for some reason got the feeling he was strong....still..there is no way I am checking Js, because as I said b4 I have not played with him.

2) the way he shoved all-in. Once I completed my raise it was not clear the amount I was raising, I just cut out half 1K chips and half 500 chips, and I never announced an amount. This could have looked like a steal to him, or it could have looked very strong depending on the interpretation.

He said "All-in" just as I released my last raising chip as if it was his plan.

[/ QUOTE ] Without prior experience with the villain, I don't think you should place too much emphasis on physical tells. He had plenty of time to consider possible moves as the play moved around the table and as you were making your raise.

The cliche about physical tells is that strong means weak and weak means strong. So is he being traditional (I don't want a call, so i'm going to appear strong) or tricky (I want a call, so i'm going to appear strong so that he thinks I'm weak).
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  #9  
Old 11-01-2007, 05:34 PM
Al Smooth Al Smooth is offline
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Default Re: I\'m at Final Table of Caesars Palace Classic. First hand.... Help!

of the hands you can put in his range, even with your classification of him as an aggressive player, the worst he can have here is aq. I give him credit for qq or better and pick a better spot to get my chips involved.

The problem with the raise is precisely the question in the op. You can't call any raise pre, especially from the first limper so in this spot it may not be a bad spot to check your option and re evaluate post flop.
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  #10  
Old 11-01-2007, 06:31 PM
gibler321 gibler321 is offline
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Default Re: I\'m at Final Table of Caesars Palace Classic. First hand.... Help!

given the way the hand was played, i think i call here. you said he seemed to be agressive. i believe you said there was 18k in the pot so to a normal observer it would look like a good spot to steal the pot. given that you said he was agressive, why would he limp AK/QQ+. given that he has been agressive, hands like that for him should get paid off fairly easily.
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