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  #11  
Old 10-25-2007, 03:03 PM
getballed getballed is offline
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Default Re: 88 in EP weird stack etc etc

Raise to 3600 and fold to shove from nits
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  #12  
Old 10-25-2007, 03:15 PM
Caldarooni Caldarooni is offline
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Default Re: 88 in EP weird stack etc etc

Can something be cEV+ and still be bad poker?
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  #13  
Old 10-25-2007, 03:35 PM
Exitonly Exitonly is offline
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Default Re: 88 in EP weird stack etc etc

i'm pretty sure i just fold.

i'm fine passing up +80 chips at 600/1200/125
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  #14  
Old 10-25-2007, 03:38 PM
djk123 djk123 is offline
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Default Re: 88 in EP weird stack etc etc

[ QUOTE ]
i'm pretty sure i just fold.

i'm fine passing up +80 chips at 600/1200/125

[/ QUOTE ]

that's with 75 antes tho not 125.
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  #15  
Old 10-25-2007, 03:52 PM
jcm4ccc jcm4ccc is offline
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Default Re: 88 in EP weird stack etc etc

[ QUOTE ]
Can something be cEV+ and still be bad poker?

[/ QUOTE ] I think so. A push is slightly +cEV. But if you assume a calling range from your opponents of 99+, AQ+, then here is how it breaks out:

67% of the time you will steal the blinds: total 21667 chips
12% of the time you will double up plus a bit more: let's say it's 39000 chips
21% of the time you bust out: 0 chips

So is the 200 chip gain worth the fact that 21% of the time you bust out? Maybe if you really suck at poker.

A push from the SB that has the same chip gain is much better, because you are busting out only 5% of the time or less. You can make those pushes all night long (and there is plenty of time, given the stack sizes, to make those kind of pushes). But you make 2 or 3 of these UTG marginal gain pushes, and you'll be gone pretty quick.
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  #16  
Old 10-25-2007, 08:26 PM
betgo betgo is offline
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Default Re: 88 in EP weird stack etc etc

I don't mind gambling. The push is probably +200 chips, so it is better than folding. You make a big stack often by gambling.

The question is whether raising and playing the hand is more cEV+ than open pushing. If you raise, you get away from some situations where the action indicates you are dominated. You also get pushes from overcards where you are a little ahead and a few from underpairs and other hands where you are significantly ahead. When you play the flop, you are often OOP. You may are going to have high flops where you don't know what to do. You may get your money in ahead on low flop, when people put you on high cards and try to take the pot.

I think if you play well, raising is best. If you had TT, raising would definately be best.

I really am not crazy about pushing 15xBB UTG in general. You kind of give out too much information without getting any information before making your decision. I like overbet open pushes much better from late position or the SB.
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  #17  
Old 10-27-2007, 02:15 AM
baltostar baltostar is offline
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Default Re: 88 in EP weird stack etc etc

These antes are huge and you about to drop into a lower M-bracket:

18867/2925 = 6.45
(18867-2175)/2925 = 5.7

Rather than concentrate on whether open shove is slightly more/less cEV than raise/re-eval, I think we should concentrate on hero's FE about to get ratcheted down.

88 is a great catch on the last hand of your M-bracket. Jam it.
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  #18  
Old 10-27-2007, 07:52 AM
TheNewf TheNewf is offline
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Default Re: 88 in EP weird stack etc etc

I would either fold or go 3300/fold to reraise. The thing about the last option is your cards are very close to irrelevant and if people call it's really tempting to spew chips to their slowplayed AA on a lot of flops so I usually just fold first time around.
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  #19  
Old 10-27-2007, 03:51 PM
d2themfi d2themfi is offline
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Default Re: 88 in EP weird stack etc etc

shove, i think 77 would be close
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