Floor Ruling on a player's action

[Rick Nebiolo]

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How is this a malicious angle? If I know somebody is making a stab at the pot on a bluff/middle-low pair. If I allow them to put the full bet of their intention out, they will then be pot committed to call if I raise all in. Now if I say all in immediately it obviously shows strength #1, and #2 it allows the person to re-think the situation as they are now playing for all their chips (or mine for that matter, but I don't do this unless I have a larger stack). Sometimes they look me up, but most of the time they fold. I'm just curious as to how that is a malicious angle? I see it as an awesome play.

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OK. I'll take "malicious angle" back. And it's an awesome play if you are in fact not disputing your out of turn "allin" (i.e., claiming it as out of turn and thus not binding) in those cases where your opponent is in fact very strong when you are not and immediately says "call".

That kind of awesome play simply won't ever be part of my arsenal though.

~ Rick

[budblown]

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How is this a malicious angle? If I know somebody is making a stab at the pot on a bluff/middle-low pair. If I allow them to put the full bet of their intention out, they will then be pot committed to call if I raise all in. Now if I say all in immediately it obviously shows strength #1, and #2 it allows the person to re-think the situation as they are now playing for all their chips (or mine for that matter, but I don't do this unless I have a larger stack). Sometimes they look me up, but most of the time they fold. I'm just curious as to how that is a malicious angle? I see it as an awesome play.

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OK. I'll take "malicious angle" back. And it's an awesome play if you are in fact not disputing your out of turn "allin" (i.e., claiming it as out of turn and thus not binding) in those cases where your opponent is in fact very strong when you are not and immediately says "call".

That kind of awesome play simply won't ever be part of my arsenal though.

~ Rick

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I would not try and dispute my verbal all in if he instacalled.

[RR]

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no it is not clear that he is all in as his hand has not been removed from the chips. Until his hand is removed from the chips or he makes a verbal declaration he has not acted.

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You may be thinking of chess rules here.

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This is generally the rule in my room. If you have not brought your hand back you can still change your action, however the way that the chips were put together here and pushed out I would expect that a floor would rule this as an all in bet.

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I think this is close enough to consider the character of the players involved. In cases like this the floor needs to consider who is most likely to be shooting an angle here. I know there will be some here that want a hard and fast rule so I will direct them to this rule:
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8. The same action may have a different meaning, depending on who does it, so the possible intent of an offender will be taken into consideration. Some factors here are the person’s amount of poker experience and past record.

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[thenutz9]

Ok, thanks for the help on the ruling, and I'm glad it has gotten some good discussion on this and similar situations.

Clarification on how the bet was made might help the ruling. Player 2 had his index finger in front of the base of the chipstack and his thumb behind. It wasn't being palmed or being pushed forward with his hands only behind it. Not sure if any matters though. I guess its just a /dealer/floor judgement here.

[Dranoel]

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Clarification on how the bet was made might help the ruling. Player 2 had his index finger in front of the base of the chipstack and his thumb behind. It wasn't being palmed or being pushed forward with his hands only behind it. Not sure if any matters though. I guess its just a /dealer/floor judgement here.

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I don't care if he has his tongue on it with his fingers crossed. He moved the chips in a forward motion past his cards. This should be his bet.

Last time he does this donkey [censored] again.

YMMV

[Mr Rick]

I got a warning at FW for bringing chips forward past my cards and then saying check (the chips were entirely encompassed by my hand - i.e. no part of any chip was touching the felt). The dealer told me that if I bring chips in front of my cards it would be considered a bet the next time. Nobody asked the dealer to force my bet - and I won the hand after the river checked through.

In your case I would rule it a bet for the full amount of the chips pushed forward.

Probably the last time he tries to look for a tell in that manner.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Ruling a bet all the chips in someone's hand is invoking the acetrack rule - a BAD rule and obviously not enforceable unless the rule exists in that room. If it does exist then it's a testament to the management's stupidity.