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View Poll Results: KQo
raise 38 71.70%
fold 11 20.75%
call 4 7.55%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1391  
Old 05-10-2007, 06:11 PM
primetime32 primetime32 is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,251
Default Re: NL Bots oSn Full Tilt

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You claim to play by the "system" but are you now claiming that you are varying your play depending on who the other players are?

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I brought this up about 700 posts ago when they first started taking questions. They say they play by a system and yet they need their chairs so close together the guy in the middle couldn't go to the bathroom without the other 2 moving.

This whole set up makes no sense. If the system virtually plays itself there is NO need to be so close for guidance.

Because maybe they get one variant situation every 4,000 hands they have to work like 8 year old chinese sweatshop babies?

These guys are simply answering the questions they can and ignoring all the tough ones.
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  #1392  
Old 05-10-2007, 06:13 PM
nlnut nlnut is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 140
Default Re: NL Bots oSn Full Tilt

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nlnut, can you please clarify whether guys sometimes discuss difficult decisions together while you play to reach a consensus or whether you always rigidly follow a predefined system?

[/ QUOTE ] <font color="red"> we do both </font>
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  #1393  
Old 05-10-2007, 06:14 PM
KurtSF KurtSF is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,983
Default Re: NL Bots on Full Tilt

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4. That a bunch of guys who put such an effort into their system would have ABSOLUTLEY no interest in improving their play or moving up. <font color="red">never said no interest...weve tweaked in the past and will in the future ...just haven't recently </font>


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This is not true, you said on more than one occasion when you first came in this thread that 'we are happy' (with your results/winrate)

quote unquote.

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Inconsistencies. The "it changes/it doesn't change" one is glaring.

And I'm going to quote my "fix" again.

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4. That a bunch of guys who put such an effort into their system would have ABSOLUTLEY no electronic, written, or pictorial record of said system, yet were able to follow it precisely for over 3 months and 500k hands.

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  #1394  
Old 05-10-2007, 06:15 PM
happyhappyhappy happyhappyhappy is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 268
Default Re: NL Bots oSn Full Tilt

One explanation for the players notes would be that you, Chuck, were taking notes when you were playing in the beginning. Playing &gt; programming bots while playing &gt; overseeing bots run on their own &gt; overriding bots when they run into problems to help tweak them to be more self sufficient eventually.

Mind you I say this is just one explanation, and if it is true then it would make sense that you bring it up now as you reach for more things to try and clear yourself with.
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  #1395  
Old 05-10-2007, 06:16 PM
pokerstudAA pokerstudAA is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Lone Star State
Posts: 1,597
Default Re: NL Bots oSn Full Tilt

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
nlnut, can you please clarify whether guys sometimes discuss difficult decisions together while you play to reach a consensus or whether you always rigidly follow a predefined system?

[/ QUOTE ] <font color="red"> we do both </font>

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Would you consider posting 10-20 hands where your "crew" held AA, KK, QQ or AK? Analyzing the play might help your situation. Don't worry - no one is trying to steal your 1bb/100 "system."

Does any one have some DB hands to post on these players?
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  #1396  
Old 05-10-2007, 06:16 PM
Fat Nicky Fat Nicky is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: StartWeight-260, Current-238
Posts: 5,017
Default Re: NL Bots on Full Tilt

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If FT is in fact unwilling to re-open the investigation, or at the very least to provide a FAR greater explanation for their rationale in clearing those accounts, then this will be an unmitigated public relations and customer service DISASTER for them.

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No it won't. You greatly overestimate 2+2's presence in the online poker market.

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It's getting to be time to trot out the dreaded B word ...

BOYCOTT

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I guarantee full tilt will not lose more than 5 customers because of this mess.
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  #1397  
Old 05-10-2007, 06:16 PM
Our House Our House is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: USGamers
Posts: 18,414
Default Re: NL Bots on Full Tilt

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2. When asked why each player took so long to make even the simplist of decisions, the answer was that they were discussing amongst each other what to do. Obviously, if they were doing that and making situational folds/calls/bluffs that flies directly in the face of their rigid strategy story <font color="red"> most of the decisions are bet sizing or slow playing monsters. </font>

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Uhhhh you guys don't slowplay. Flop aggression of 11? You guys are either betting or folding. 97% continuation bets doesn't help your claim of slowplaying either.

Edit: I also don't think that you guys could possibly discuss betsizing in any meaningful fashion in the 30 seconds or so you have to act.

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He stated before that they used autohotkey scripts (betpot and betsizer) to set the bets to a predetermined %age of the pot.

Also, as mentioned, varying bet sizes would definitely lead to inconsistency in stats between accounts.

Fishy, fishy, fishy.
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  #1398  
Old 05-10-2007, 06:17 PM
primetime32 primetime32 is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,251
Default Re: NL Bots on Full Tilt

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First off, I want to apologize for the delay in responding. I probably should have popped in right away yesterday to mention that we were well aware of the issue. That's pretty much what I'm doing now. This kind of issue isn't anywhere near my area of expertise, and for that reason, Sean from Support should be giving some more detail from his point of view before the end of day today.

Obviously for security reasons, I can't say much about our bot policies and detection methods. I can, however, say that we treat these issues very seriously and review our policies often. In fact, we had a meeting today involving all of our top decision makers in response to this case to re-evaluate these procedures. I also want to thank Trebek for his vigilance, and to nation, Brandon, and nlnut for telling their stories as well. It's been a very interesting thread and debate.

Doug

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Whether what they have done is against the T&amp;C of FT is really not important anymore. I think what they are doing SHOULD be or become "illegal" and unacceptable.

I get the feeling that what they have done will not be allowed when all is said and done. FTP has too much to lose to allow something that has the appearance of BOT/Sweatshop play to continue.

I am seeing alot of people at other forums (regular gambling forums) who are already swearing off FTP based on this incident.
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  #1399  
Old 05-10-2007, 06:17 PM
Mitternacht Mitternacht is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 69
Default Re: NL Bots oSn Full Tilt

He doesn't have to reach for more things to clear himself. He has already been cleared by Full Tilt. Now whether or not you trust their investigation, the fact remains that they are the only ones that had to clear him. He doesn't have to prove anything to anyone on here.
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  #1400  
Old 05-10-2007, 06:17 PM
cardcounter0 cardcounter0 is offline
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,047
Default Re: NL Bots oSn Full Tilt

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From nlnut's and brandon's conduct in this thread I think it can safely be assumed that neither of them is very bright.

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Understatement of the year. Take a look at the pic of their "setup". I spend a lot of time at my computer, or take a look at other pics of people's set-ups.

Where is the clutter? Right now, I have an empty water bottle, a pack of cigs, an ash tray, a stack of old bills. Above my terminal are some baseball hats, a lamp, a book, and a box of envelopes. Next to my mouse pad is a pen.

They play hours and hours, crammed together, and their isn't even a crumpled up candy wrapper to be found. RIGHT.
Those monitors were place on a empty clean table for the pic, and some mismatched chairs shoved in front of them.
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