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#131
10-18-2007, 06:10 PM
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Re: Torre is back
[ QUOTE ]
Speaking of facts, thanks for bringing it to our attention that Joe Torre was "fired." Someone take the shovel away from this guy. [/ QUOTE ] how about a 1.5+x bigger salary than the guy is "low-balling". "yankee farm system bare"? how about Baseball America will release top 100 prospects list soon. the yankees are expected to have 8, and possibly 9-10, prospects on it. you want players since 95? then you can't stop at jeter, posada, rivera, soriano, wang and cano (not a bad list for 12 years I must say, HOF/MVP/CY candidates). how about nick johnson, dioner navarro, andy pettite? those are all-stars and regulars in their own right, and *gasp* all from the yankees farm. 
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#132
10-18-2007, 06:11 PM
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Re: Torre is back
[ QUOTE ]
None of this can be attributed to the Yankees don't have a ton of open spots for young players to come in and start? The Yankees have one of the best groups of young pitchers in baseball, all coming through the revamped farm system where the team made it a point to center their player strategy on keeping and grooming young pitching, instead of trading them away for older vets. This strategy has only been in place for a few years, and look at the young pitching talent who will be playing next year (Joba, Hughes, Kennedy). Sure they don't have a ton of positional players who have been recently called up, but you aren't looking at the fact that young pitching is much more important to have than young hitters. It is much harder to get top of the line starting pitchers than it is starting position players, and because of this, and the fact that there aren't many open spots on the roster, the Yankees have put more resources and draft picks into getting young pitching. And they have done a great job at it. [/ QUOTE ] I completely agree it is much more important to develop pitching, absolutely. But it's also much riskier, because of the tendency for highly talented young pitchers to blow out their arms. (And I agree the necessity of the Joba rule didn't reflect well on Torre.) There still has to be real position player development. Kennedy and Joba appear to be studs. I think Hughes is overrated, but he'll probably be a fine pitcher. But no one's demonstrating where the position players are coming from, and while those three are nice, that's not the ingredients for a World Series. That's all I'm saying. Yes, there's free agency, but like many other teams, the Yankees have had at least as many big misses there as hits. There's trades, certainly, but if you want studs, you have to give up studs, and everyone you're citing as a homegrown stud, you're counting on as a Yankee, not as trade bait. Of course, there's also usually the greater fool, such as Tom Hicks, so maybe you can pry away Hank Blalock...
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#133
10-18-2007, 06:13 PM
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Re: Torre is back
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] And whom do you project that to be, besides Joba? [/ QUOTE ] how have you not given up on this thread [/ QUOTE ] What's to give up? I keep waiting for someone to explain how the Torre "firing" is actually good for the Yankees' winning prospects going forward. I keep waiting for someone to explain what it is that's actually going to make the Yankees a playoff-quality team next year. I'm not interested in arguing or hurling insults, I'm interested in facts. As of yet, no one seems to be able to explain just how today's events makes the Yankees any better than they were a week ago. It's almost as if the underpants gnomes were running the team, and not just posting here. 1. Fire Joe Torre 2. ??????? 3. PROFIT! How does firing Torre improve your starting rotation? How does firing Joe Torre convince A-Rod not to opt out of his contract? How does firing Joe Torre convine Rivera or Posada to stick around? This year's free agent crop is fairly weak, so how does firing Joe Torre improve the roster? I agree, his in game decisionmaking left a lot to be desired. I probably would have fired him by now. But that doesn't change the fact that he was not fired until now, and done so in a very classless manner, with a lowball offer for only one year, that any reasonable person would know would be a slap in the face. You can keep tossing insults, but maybe someone else will actually provide an explanation. [/ QUOTE ] You were the fool who jumped into this thread claiming that joe torre deserved every penny he made. Now you want us to give evidence that this makes the yankees better? it doesn't. however, it does mean that the bullpen will be better managed, that one reliever won't enter the postseason with a dead arm.
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#134
10-18-2007, 06:16 PM
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Re: Torre is back
Yankees farm system > Rockies
Yankees future > Rockies Yankees organization > Rockies enjoy your year..Yankee fans will enjoy our next decade.
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#135
10-18-2007, 06:17 PM
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Re: Torre is back
25 percent paycut? well wtf is he making like triple the next manager? B/c he won world series. Well if he doesnt win the WS and thats all Steinrenner cares about what do you think is going to happen.5 mil for torre is overpaying. Comparing him to Kobe Bryant is one of the stupidist analogies Ive ever read.
As for the NL west being a tough divsion gimme a break.Colorado would come in 3rd or 4th next year if they were in the AL east. Did anyone say firing torre would help the pitching staff? You might as well say they shouldnt resign arod b/c that wont help the pitching staff either.
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#136
10-18-2007, 06:18 PM
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Re: Torre is back
[ QUOTE ]
Actually Joba, Hughes, Kennedy is the best we can do...and I'm ok with that. There is no reason to bring up other outfield prospects when we are commited contract wise to Bobby A, Johnny Damon, and Hideki Matsui. and I believe the Yanks have a top notch outfielder already in the pipeline. [/ QUOTE ] Well, that's actually a reaonable response, thank you. If they have a top OF, then that helps. Isn't Damon a FA after this season? I thought Abreu was, too, but I could be wrong, but I've been looking at those two spots as holes that need to be filled. And yes, 3/5 of a starting rotation coming up from your organization is a great accomplishment if they all pan out and stay healthy. I was hopeful of learning what else, and you've actually educated me a bit.
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#137
10-18-2007, 06:20 PM
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Re: Torre is back
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Everyone who claims to be smart considers the AL East the toughest division in baseball (though no division with Tampa Bay and Baltimore can really be considered tough). I'm just saying if that *is* true, I'm [/ QUOTE ] Are you joking? You don't think the AL East is the toughest division? Where does COL finish if they played in the AL East? Where do any of the AL East teams finish if they play in the NL West? craig [/ QUOTE ] 2nd or 3rd place, most likely. They're far better than Tampa Bay or Baltimore, and they're better than Toronto. They might finish ahead of the Yankees. Red Sox probably finish 1st or 2nd in the NL West, Yankees, anywhere from 1st to 3rd, depending on their young arms.
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#138
10-18-2007, 06:22 PM
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Re: Torre is back
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Everyone who claims to be smart considers the AL East the toughest division in baseball (though no division with Tampa Bay and Baltimore can really be considered tough). I'm just saying if that *is* true, I'm [/ QUOTE ] Are you joking? You don't think the AL East is the toughest division? Where does COL finish if they played in the AL East? Where do any of the AL East teams finish if they play in the NL West? craig [/ QUOTE ] 2nd or 3rd place, most likely. They're far better than Tampa Bay or Baltimore, and they're better than Toronto. They might finish ahead of the Yankees. Red Sox probably finish 1st or 2nd in the NL West, Yankees, anywhere from 1st to 3rd, depending on their young arms. [/ QUOTE ] Post of the Year.
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#139
10-18-2007, 06:24 PM
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Re: Torre is back
abreu is not under contract for 2008. They have a 15-16 mil dollar option on him.
How is torre underpaid coming off of a miserable managerial season when he still wouldve been the highest paid manager in baseball? If Clemes comes back next year (with anyone) do you think he should be paid as much as he was in 2007 despite his 2007 performance? Why should Torre be any different? Enjoy the rockies next week and a half. Hopefully for your sake the horseshoe stays firmly implanted in their ass. Please find me a sportbetting site whee i can bet that the rockies wont make the playoffs next year at even money.
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#140
10-18-2007, 06:30 PM
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Re: Torre is back
[ QUOTE ]
You don't think the AL East is the toughest division? Where does COL finish if they played in the AL East? Where do any of the AL East teams finish if they play in the NL West? craig [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 2nd or 3rd place, most likely. They're far better than Tampa Bay or Baltimore, and they're better than Toronto. They might finish ahead of the Yankees. Red Sox probably finish 1st or 2nd in the NL West, Yankees, anywhere from 1st to 3rd, depending on their young arms. [/ QUOTE ] lolololololololol Amazing! A+, level of the year. I thought you were being serious this whole time, but that cannot be possible...
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