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#52
11-19-2007, 01:42 AM
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Re: uh-oh
Why should we think that MP will call the river c/r? From PokerBob's description of the hand, we should be more inclined to believe that MP won't call. Assuming that the SB noticed the same reactions from MP, if anyone is going to call the river raise, it is going to have to be PokerBob.
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#53
11-19-2007, 06:03 PM
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Re: uh-oh
I think you're beat...
However, based on your assessment of what the SB MUST know about your play... you have to assume that he knows you have an above average hand (top two, set, ect...). I HATE the idea of a good player at the table (especially at this level) KNOWING that you'll muck an above average hand for one bet or one C/R. That's pretty scary. Usually I think "meta-game" arguments are just excuses to do lose crazy stuff... but in this case I think you need to show-down for one bet. You don't really want to give this guy a license to take shots across your bow in every 15 BB pot do you? :-)
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#54
11-19-2007, 06:09 PM
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Re: uh-oh
[ QUOTE ]
I think you're beat... However, based on your assessment of what the SB MUST know about your play... you have to assume that he knows you have an above average hand (top two, set, ect...). I HATE the idea of a good player at the table (especially at this level) KNOWING that you'll muck an above average hand for one bet or one C/R. That's pretty scary. Usually I think "meta-game" arguments are just excuses to do lose crazy stuff... but in this case I think you need to show-down for one bet. You don't really want to give this guy a license to take shots across your bow in every 15 BB pot do you? :-) [/ QUOTE ] I do not think that folding here is exploitable. In order for SB's play to work as a bluff, many many things must come together prefectly. He needs to be in a position where he (a) has a hand that can call preflop AND (b) withstand all the flop action AND (c) manage to see the river AND (d) have the turn and river fall in such a way that a good player in the BB can reasonably deduce that he has a flush AND (e) MP has to have hand that he clearly doesn't like. This simply doesn't happen very often. Folding here may actually be beneficial, as some may notice this fold and start taking shots in spots where I would never ever fold.
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#55
11-19-2007, 06:32 PM
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Re: uh-oh
[ QUOTE ]
Folding here may actually be beneficial, as some may notice this fold and start taking shots in spots where I would never ever fold. [/ QUOTE ] 1st- I don't think that's the case since you are pretty frickin tight / standard / aggressive and not the type of player people tend to get jiggy with... However, this does bring up an interesting strategy argument... if you make what I would consider a pretty monster fold here for one bet.... do you show? by showing, this will probably accomplish your goal from above (more people taking more shots at you in situations where you won't fold and hence you winz more monies) ... then again, by showing, you might be setting yourself up for a MUCH tougher session where you have to decide repeatedly if people are coming at you with the goods or a bluff???
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#56
11-19-2007, 06:34 PM
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Re: uh-oh
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Folding here may actually be beneficial, as some may notice this fold and start taking shots in spots where I would never ever fold. [/ QUOTE ] 1st- I don't think that's the case since you are pretty frickin tight / standard / aggressive and not the type of player people tend to get jiggy with... However, this does bring up an interesting strategy argument... if you make what I would consider a pretty monster fold here for one bet.... do you show? by showing, this will probably accomplish your goal from above (more people taking more shots at you in situations where you won't fold and hence you winz more monies) ... then again, by showing, you might be setting yourself up for a MUCH tougher session where you have to decide repeatedly if people are coming at you with the goods or a bluff??? [/ QUOTE ] there is no point in showing when everyone in the building knows what i got.
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#58
11-19-2007, 08:52 PM
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Re: uh-oh
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Folding here may actually be beneficial, as some may notice this fold and start taking shots in spots where I would never ever fold. [/ QUOTE ] 1st- I don't think that's the case since you are pretty frickin tight / standard / aggressive and not the type of player people tend to get jiggy with... However, this does bring up an interesting strategy argument... if you make what I would consider a pretty monster fold here for one bet.... do you show? by showing, this will probably accomplish your goal from above (more people taking more shots at you in situations where you won't fold and hence you winz more monies) ... then again, by showing, you might be setting yourself up for a MUCH tougher session where you have to decide repeatedly if people are coming at you with the goods or a bluff??? [/ QUOTE ] there is no point in showing when everyone in the building knows what i got. [/ QUOTE ] I agree that showing is kind of a rookie move... but... consider the following: In just about everyone of your posts (pokerbob) you always seem to be working on the same assumptions: A) everyone at the table always knows and realizes how well you play B) everyone at the table knows and realizes how tight you are C) everyone at the table reads hands and hand ranges as well as you do... I think maybe you should consider that there are hundreds of players you have / will play with that are not in the "know" (thank god). I'm actually NOT trying to pick a fight with you here (rare)... but I think if you reflect on your "standard" post... you give people A LOT of credit in a strange way.
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#59
11-19-2007, 09:21 PM
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Re: uh-oh
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Folding here may actually be beneficial, as some may notice this fold and start taking shots in spots where I would never ever fold. [/ QUOTE ] 1st- I don't think that's the case since you are pretty frickin tight / standard / aggressive and not the type of player people tend to get jiggy with... However, this does bring up an interesting strategy argument... if you make what I would consider a pretty monster fold here for one bet.... do you show? by showing, this will probably accomplish your goal from above (more people taking more shots at you in situations where you won't fold and hence you winz more monies) ... then again, by showing, you might be setting yourself up for a MUCH tougher session where you have to decide repeatedly if people are coming at you with the goods or a bluff??? [/ QUOTE ] there is no point in showing when everyone in the building knows what i got. [/ QUOTE ] I agree that showing is kind of a rookie move... but... consider the following: In just about everyone of your posts (pokerbob) you always seem to be working on the same assumptions: A) everyone at the table always knows and realizes how well you play B) everyone at the table knows and realizes how tight you are C) everyone at the table reads hands and hand ranges as well as you do... I think maybe you should consider that there are hundreds of players you have / will play with that are not in the "know" (thank god). I'm actually NOT trying to pick a fight with you here (rare)... but I think if you reflect on your "standard" post... you give people A LOT of credit in a strange way. [/ QUOTE ] i am not sure how your post has anything to do with the fact that anyone with any combination of brains and lhe ability knows exactly what my hand is. but, i'll respond anyway. a.) i am well aware that most (at least on this forum) have no idea how good i am. it only works to my advantage, and provides comic relief for me and my friends. b.) you have played with me for maybe 20 hands. you have no idea if i am tight or not. c.) the players in this hand in question both hand read well. obviously they don't read hands as well as I do, but then again how could they? i am well aware that there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of players who are not in the "know". i see it every time i open up 2+2.
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