Even if Things Get Heavy, I'll Still Float On

[LearnedfromTV]

hehe i like this line. i don't do it much, esp in rr pots, but when i do it's fun b/c the other guy is sitting there with queens thinking "screw you ace jack."

Because check-call, check-check, lead has to be a hand! And there's an ace on board!

It's nice when the board is dryish and/or the only reasonable draw gets there somewhere (56 here).

Not to get too TV poker, but didn't Prahlad do this to Lissandro with like 63o during their pissfest near the end of the main event?

[Jeffmet3]

I like this play, but the more I think about it, I don't like it versus at unknown at 2/4. If it was a regular, or someone you at least know is decent then I like it, but I think there's a pretty decent chance you're getting looked up with Ax

[Big_Jim]

Yeah, I thought KK-TT would bet the flop a lot. So many people just bet the flop just because.

I gave serious consideration to a flop c/r, but I think it looks pretty bluffy, on this board, so I thought a float was better.

If he bet the turn, obviously how much he bets is a big thing to consider. If he bet small enough that I have direct odds, a call looks tempting. If he pots it, I should probably fold, since he'll get sick odds to call, and my set outs might not be good. If he bets somewhere in the middle, or small, a c/r looks tempting.

If I bet, a small blocker bet should probably be considered, but I don't use that play very regularly, because I think it induces too many bluffs, and I don't want to play a big pot here.

On the river, obviously checking would be retarded. My hand screams Ax, so I should be able to fold a ton of pairs, and I prevent myself from having to make a likely -EV c/c.

[BobboFitos]

this may be nitty, as well, but you're NOT floating.

you're check calling a weak obvious draw OOP vs a half pot bet, which in and of itself to show profit perhaps needs a bluff element, but it's not a raw float - if you had 67 here, that's an OOP float.

[LearnedfromTV]

bobbo i think it makes sense to call calling with a really weak draw a float since the majority of the value of the play comes from the bluff element. In other words, you're doing this was 55 for mostly the same reasons as if you had 67.

It's very rare that you have literally no outs. I know I'm not the only one who has floated or bluff raised with an underpair and been very pleased by the turn, or floated with no pair no draw and had two pair by the river.

That said, gutshot/overcards/third pair floats obv need a little less bluff than no pair no draw.

[LearnedfromTV]

jim i just saw in the op that you asked specifically about the turn. I think checking is best... i assume you'd check with 56, or a set if you check called the flop. check-call lead turn is not really believable as an ace either. And him checking behind the turn is a key part of reading his hand - even though he would do that with an ace, especially a weaker one, he'd do it with lots of other showdownable hands that hope the river checks through/expect your river action to tell him whether you have him beat.

I agree that checkraising a turn bet that is large enough to give him very good odds to call is probably bad, and that checkraising a medium bet is good, because from his perspective, if he's bluffing a medium sized second barrel is just as likely to get you off an ace as a larger one. I think i'd still prefer checkraising a bet that gives you direct odds, because it isn't too likely you're getting paid off very much on any of your outs*, basically all of the scare cards are your actual outs, and leading the river after calling twice as a bluff is less believable than checkraising the turn if you have to get him off an ace.

* I realize those cards should not hit your hand given your line, unless you have 56s and have him beat on the turn, but I can't imagine an opponent with QQ here looking at a board of A3476 is going to make a hero call.

[luckychewy]

completely agree with lftv.

[EC10]

oh i bet this turn every time FO SHEEEEEZZZZZZZ

[catcher193]

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I fold PF. I agree with bobbo about flop play. Problem with river is imo most unknowns don't bet TT-KK on this flop.

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Disagree.

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I agree with the disagreement. Assuming he's disagreeing with the second half, that is.

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agree.

ps. you might have the best hand sometimes, which makes bluffing slightly better, because it "works" more often.

[TheJared]

So is this what people are doing to me when they cold call my 3-bets OOP? I really think a flop c/r is a better line b/c it folds out the same hands (probably even more) and gives us two streets to catch up if behind.

If I did c/c the flop I would shove this turn b/c it improved my hand and I want to create more fold equity. I don't mind your line if the turn didn't improve our hand.